March 15, 2024

Ep138: Jim Marshall ~ Transcending Ordinary Understanding With Septemics

Ep138: Jim Marshall ~ Transcending Ordinary Understanding With Septemics
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Season 6

Unlock the secrets to maximising human potential with polymath Jim Marshall as he takes you on an enlightening journey through the philosophical system of Septemics. His unique perspective, shaped by a transition from engineering to studying the depths of human behaviour, provides a transformative approach to understanding ourselves and accelerating our unfolding in all areas of life.

This episode is an exploration of not just the theoretical, but the immensely practical applications of Septemics. We discuss the power of Jim's 35 intricate scales to gauge personal development, relationship dynamics, and more. Learn how this nuanced framework can guide you to remarkable self-awareness and improvement. My conversation with Jim traverses from personal stories to historical figures, underscoring the importance of recognising diverse skills and traits that can profoundly shape both our personal and professional worlds.

As the spring of 2024 unfolds, a time traditionally associated with growth and new beginnings, embrace the concept of Septemix. With its seven rays representing different aspects of life, it stands as a foundational spectrum for self-reflection and advancement. Jim's insights and the Septemics system offer listeners a unique lens to review progress and set meaningful life goals. Tune in for an episode that promises to enrich your understanding of the self, and equip you with a compass for navigating the complexities of life in all its manifestations.

Where to find Jim and Septemics:
https://Septemics.com

Buy 'Septemics' here:
https://www.amazon.com/Septemics-Hierarchies-Phenomena-Prediction-Management/dp/166551244X/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=septemics&ref=nb_sb_noss

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Chapters

00:02 - Exploring Truth, Transcendence, and Septemics

16:58 - Exploring a Polymathic Perspective

29:41 - Using Scales to Navigate Relationships

36:42 - Subtemics

54:30 - Understanding Human Behavior and Assessing Relationships

01:07:38 - Understanding People's Skills and Traits

01:14:53 - Understanding and Applying Septemix Concepts

01:25:54 - Understanding Septimax and Its Relevance

Transcript
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00:00:02.362 --> 00:00:07.687
Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by BeingSpace with Catherine Llewellyn.

00:00:07.687 --> 00:00:24.652
Truth and Transcendence, episode 138, with special guest Jim Marshall.

00:00:24.652 --> 00:00:38.923
Now, if you haven't come across Jim, he's a polymathic intellectual who has devoted over 50,000 hours to the study and practice of multiple dimensions of human potential and development.

00:00:38.923 --> 00:00:52.625
He received a classical education as an honours student at the Jesuit Military Prep School, was accepted into engineering school while still a junior in prep school and attended college on academic scholarship.

00:00:52.625 --> 00:01:08.659
Jim graduated college with a Bachelor of Science cum laude and while still an undergraduate he began the study of quote alternative arts and sciences, which today would be described as transformational and holistic.

00:01:08.659 --> 00:01:11.728
So you can see why I immediately was interested in talking to Jim.

00:01:11.728 --> 00:01:23.268
Eventually he became a professional practitioner and, after 28 years of formal education, had a long career as a human development engineer.

00:01:23.268 --> 00:01:33.948
Jim has integrated the best aspects of the most advanced techniques on the planet and expanded their limits by his own research and discovery.

00:01:33.948 --> 00:01:48.611
He has successfully treated and or trained hundreds of clients over a 40 year career and is the inventor of septemics and several consciousness expanding systems.

00:01:48.611 --> 00:02:07.941
The Jim's areas of expertise include psychology, philosophy, theology, parapsychology, science, engineering, mathematics, law, literature, history, music, organisation, metaphysics, military science, political science, physical culture and education Wow.

00:02:07.941 --> 00:02:19.870
And Jim's revolutionary practical philosophic system, septemics, is showcased in his best selling book Septemics Hierarchies of Human Phenomena.

00:02:19.870 --> 00:02:25.240
So I think we can see about eight reasons why I would invite Jim onto the podcast.

00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:26.143
And amongst all of that.

00:02:26.143 --> 00:02:40.025
But actually I think Jim is genuinely a fascinating man with so much to share in multiple areas, and I deeply respect his commitment to intensive inquiry and exploration, all in the name of the vetament of man.

00:02:40.025 --> 00:02:43.725
So, jim, thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:02:43.725 --> 00:02:46.570
Thank you, catherine, we're glad to be here.

00:02:46.570 --> 00:02:47.813
Excellent.

00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:59.368
So when we met in the prequel we talked about there's so many things that we could talk about for many hours, no doubt, but we've only got an hour and an hour and a half or something like that.

00:02:59.368 --> 00:03:10.366
So we actually honed in on what you might call the unexplainable or the mystery, and that's something Jim and I are going to talk about today.

00:03:10.366 --> 00:03:20.310
And also, of course, I'm going to ask Jim to share about Septemics, because it's a very powerful body of work that he's created.

00:03:20.310 --> 00:03:34.509
So that's what we're going to be talking about, and I personally think that what you call the unexplainable or the mystery to me is in many ways more important than that which we think can be explained.

00:03:35.983 --> 00:03:42.985
It's an absolutely vital part of human reality that we don't understand everything and some things cannot be explained.

00:03:42.985 --> 00:03:49.391
So looking into that, I think, in-depth is terribly, terribly important.

00:03:49.391 --> 00:04:10.683
So, jim, if I can start with my favorite first question, which is thinking about the unexplainable and the mystery, are you somebody who's always, always been interested in that, or was this something that you kind of began to take an interest in at some point in your life that you can recall?

00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:12.741
The former.

00:04:12.741 --> 00:04:24.208
I have absolutely no memory of a time when I was not intensely interested in learning everything taught in every university.

00:04:24.208 --> 00:04:27.726
I was just born that way, wow.

00:04:27.726 --> 00:04:37.980
I started school when I was three and I'd been involved in education one way or another to the current my entire life, and it just continues.

00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:44.454
You know, I'm just insatiably curious about any serious subject.

00:04:44.454 --> 00:04:45.297
Wow.

00:04:49.305 --> 00:04:53.492
And I should say just one sentence because this sort of ties into what you talked about.

00:04:53.492 --> 00:05:15.168
I am the dispellerer of hitherto unknown natural phenomena which greatly aid in the understanding of people, from which I created a revolutionary practical philosophical system called Septemax and published it in the book Septemax Hierarchies of Human Phenomenon.

00:05:15.168 --> 00:05:17.452
Yeah, Right.

00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:31.675
So when you say hitherto unknown natural processes or phenomena, what did you do to actually discover those?

00:05:31.675 --> 00:05:32.983
How did you do that?

00:05:33.927 --> 00:05:34.146
Okay.

00:05:34.146 --> 00:05:41.300
Well, the story really started, I think, when I was accepted into engineering school at the age of 16.

00:05:41.300 --> 00:05:52.211
Now, of course, I thought, like all the other engineering schools, that I would be engineering physical things like electrons, chemicals, airfoils, motors.

00:05:52.211 --> 00:06:14.430
But by the time I had my bachelor's degree, it was clear that I wanted to engineer nothing physical, but rather the human psyche, because that is the area of greatest mystery, of greatest unknown and, more significantly, the area in which we as a race are failing miserably.

00:06:14.430 --> 00:06:22.471
95% of the problems in industrialized society are because people don't understand.

00:06:22.471 --> 00:06:30.708
People don't understand the wife, don't understand the mother, don't understand the son, don't understand the boss, don't understand somebody who's running for all.

00:06:30.708 --> 00:06:38.288
That's why we're getting into our understory relationships, that's why we hook up with people who wind up absconding with money.

00:06:38.288 --> 00:06:42.959
That's why we elect idiots to political position.

00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:48.468
It's all because we don't understand people, and this book resolves that issue.

00:06:49.100 --> 00:06:55.211
Right and you say because we don't understand people, do you include in that understanding ourselves?

00:06:55.211 --> 00:06:58.562
Oh sure, so were you always?

00:06:58.562 --> 00:06:59.807
It sounds like you were.

00:06:59.807 --> 00:07:20.307
When you said at the beginning that you wanted to learn everything that's on offer in every university, that statement could be interpreted to mean that you wanted to learn the information that's already there, but then you went on to say that you were really interested in discovering these phenomena that were hitherto unknown.

00:07:20.307 --> 00:07:24.507
So it sounds like you had a kind of dual channel of interest.

00:07:24.507 --> 00:07:28.125
You know the what's already known and the what's not yet known.

00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:29.523
Is that fair to say?

00:07:31.408 --> 00:07:32.540
Let me answer it this way.

00:07:32.540 --> 00:07:50.250
I mean, the short answer is yes, but by the time, really, I graduated prep school, I was already an intellectual and I was so well educated that I had a pretty good idea what was in the mainstream.

00:07:50.250 --> 00:08:01.610
I was a very serious student, and this only continued when I got into college.

00:08:01.610 --> 00:08:17.850
Now, by the time I got out of I got out of my bachelor's degree, I knew the mainstream Right, but there were gaping holes, huge gaping holes.

00:08:17.850 --> 00:08:22.740
What's in the Twilight Zone, you know.

00:08:22.740 --> 00:08:29.112
So that's why I decided to become a human development engineer.

00:08:29.952 --> 00:08:30.374
I see.

00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:40.443
Okay, and so I worked one on one with hundreds of clients of every description for cumulatively many thousands of hours.

00:08:40.443 --> 00:08:48.482
As I was doing it, I started to notice, just incidentally, that I could predict outcome of the session.

00:08:48.482 --> 00:09:01.152
That's to say, all of my clients improve as a result of our work together, but I would actually know specifically what that improvement would be.

00:09:01.152 --> 00:09:13.113
Now, I never told this to anyone, but I made notes, and as the decades rolled by, this just happened more and more and I made more notes.

00:09:13.113 --> 00:09:16.292
This, of course, only made me better at what I did.

00:09:16.292 --> 00:09:30.426
Yeah, so the results just got better and better, and I came to realize that the client would be at a specific level, on a specific scale that I had previously observed.

00:09:30.426 --> 00:09:31.048
Yeah.

00:09:32.341 --> 00:09:33.826
All of this was done empirically.

00:09:33.826 --> 00:09:41.087
There was no theory of satemics, so satemics just fell out in front of me.

00:09:41.087 --> 00:09:42.270
As a result of my work.

00:09:42.270 --> 00:09:52.683
I understood you, but because of my polymathic credentials I was able to see it for what it was by 1995,.

00:09:52.683 --> 00:09:54.129
A couple of things happened.

00:09:54.879 --> 00:10:06.667
One day I was pondering a difficult client and I realized that this client was at a level that I had not previously observed.

00:10:06.667 --> 00:10:14.673
Now I had a six level scale that by then I absolutely knew axiomatically was correct.

00:10:14.673 --> 00:10:20.110
And then, when I found the seventh level, it was obvious to me where to insert it.

00:10:20.110 --> 00:10:25.908
And when I inserted it, that scale manifested mathematically.

00:10:25.908 --> 00:10:30.038
All of these data jumped out at me.

00:10:30.038 --> 00:10:33.418
This is what mathematics is for.

00:10:34.812 --> 00:10:41.437
A whole idea is you start with a formula or an equation and you cope data out of it.

00:10:41.437 --> 00:10:46.179
That is how Einstein found E equals MC squared.

00:10:46.179 --> 00:10:56.756
So I found that the scale had mathematics embedded in it.

00:10:56.756 --> 00:10:59.155
Yeah, lots of it.

00:10:59.155 --> 00:11:13.856
I say, whoa, I don't know what this says, but whatever it is, it's natural law, because anything that has mathematics embedded in it, like for example the Fibonacci sequence, yes, natural law.

00:11:13.856 --> 00:11:15.371
Yeah.

00:11:15.371 --> 00:11:33.297
So then I thought, wait a minute, I wonder how many of these other scales, if I have are also seven-level scale because of this experience that I had with mathematics jumping out at me but haven't been developed all the way because I wasn't developing anything.

00:11:33.297 --> 00:11:44.919
I was just helping my clients in making notes, yeah, so, knowing what I was looking for, I inspected these other scales are about 32 for about that time.

00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:54.400
In a short period of time, each of them went to seven levels and, as it did, it manifested mathematically.

00:11:54.400 --> 00:11:55.130
Yeah.

00:11:56.053 --> 00:12:02.297
So I now had this whole body of data and I said wait a minute, this is a separate subject.

00:12:02.297 --> 00:12:03.815
I found something here.

00:12:03.815 --> 00:12:13.774
Then my next thought was I could go for helping people by the hundred, which is what I had been doing as human development engineer.

00:12:13.774 --> 00:12:15.816
You're helping people by the million.

00:12:15.816 --> 00:12:19.874
If I put this in a book, you can get it out, yeah, I said.

00:12:19.874 --> 00:12:20.537
Well, I have to write it.

00:12:22.173 --> 00:12:35.581
So the first draft was completed in December of 1995, and I sent it in transcript form to colleagues of mine, all of who had graduate degrees in a variety of subjects.

00:12:35.581 --> 00:12:39.700
They all responded very positively.

00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:43.817
They had different responses, but distinctly positive response.

00:12:43.817 --> 00:12:47.157
That told me okay, this is exactly what I think it is.

00:12:47.157 --> 00:12:52.301
This is a new subject that could really help people.

00:12:52.301 --> 00:13:11.979
So I spent the next 25 years working on this book Because you have to realize, first I hadn't discovered the actual septemic phenomena, which was largely done by 95, as I had explained, although I did find three more skills while I was writing the book.

00:13:11.979 --> 00:13:21.240
Then I had to take this data and I had to use it to craft a workable system.

00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:23.296
They helped me understand.

00:13:23.296 --> 00:13:25.517
I am a died-in-the-wool engineer.

00:13:25.517 --> 00:13:35.278
I have the personality and the mind of an engineer, so as an engineer, I'm only interested in results and facts.

00:13:35.278 --> 00:13:40.380
To engineering opinions and beliefs are utterly irrelevant.

00:13:40.380 --> 00:13:41.250
Yeah.

00:13:42.153 --> 00:13:45.121
So I had this hurdle.

00:13:45.121 --> 00:13:49.321
I had to make something that would actually work all the time for everybody.

00:13:49.321 --> 00:13:52.672
That took 20 years Wow.

00:13:53.676 --> 00:13:56.952
But that's dedication, that's dedication, that's how.

00:13:57.073 --> 00:13:57.315
I am.

00:13:57.315 --> 00:14:10.258
So, then, the most time-consuming aspect of this was expressing this in a way that would make sense to the average reader.

00:14:10.258 --> 00:14:11.253
Yeah.

00:14:11.253 --> 00:14:26.279
I know I succeeded at that because since the first draft of this came out in 95, almost 28 years have gone by, and so I've been seeing the results for 28 years.

00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.357
People reading this and getting it.

00:14:29.357 --> 00:14:33.116
You don't have to be a college graduate to get this.

00:14:33.116 --> 00:14:41.442
So that was the result of my bending over backwards to make this comprehensible.

00:14:41.442 --> 00:14:42.683
Yeah.

00:14:43.331 --> 00:14:55.481
So that was very time-consuming and if you read the book you'll see there are a lot of things in it that make it easy to understand the way I wrote it and the structure of it.

00:14:55.481 --> 00:14:59.519
So not sort of how I got it.

00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:02.009
So all of this was about discovery.

00:15:02.009 --> 00:15:15.719
It was about finding, resolving unknowns, discovering new things, because you have to see, as a human development engineer, every session that I did I discovered something.

00:15:15.719 --> 00:15:31.760
I would see these phenomena and I would note them down and then I would use them again, and so all of this was verified by this scientific rigor of seeing it work.

00:15:31.760 --> 00:15:45.177
Again and again I had thousands and thousands of incidents where the client, I would spot him at a certain level, we'd work together and he would go right up to the next.

00:15:45.177 --> 00:15:47.533
So it was verified.

00:15:47.533 --> 00:15:49.220
Yeah.

00:15:50.051 --> 00:15:53.217
That is what made me realize OK, this is whatever.

00:15:53.217 --> 00:15:57.495
This is, it's big and I have to share this to people.

00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:00.817
Yeah, so you road tested it as you went.

00:16:00.817 --> 00:16:10.440
I actually think that the most powerful systems are developed in that way in terms of observation of what's actually happening.

00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.196
Thank you, fascinating.

00:16:13.196 --> 00:16:31.902
I'd like to just ask you to see if you could explain something, which is when you said I can't remember the exact words, but you said that when you, when you examined it, that the mathematical aspect of it was like coming out to you.

00:16:31.902 --> 00:16:32.292
Right, yes.

00:16:33.470 --> 00:16:37.080
Now I think a lot of people would think what on earth does he mean by that?

00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:39.956
So are you able to explain that a little bit more?

00:16:39.956 --> 00:16:43.636
Yeah, the layperson, the non polymath in the room.

00:16:43.636 --> 00:16:45.251
Yes, like myself.

00:16:46.269 --> 00:16:52.282
So, first of all, there is a section in the introduction to my book called why Seven.

00:16:52.282 --> 00:16:54.995
Obviously that's mathematical.

00:16:54.995 --> 00:16:57.196
The explanation is mathematical.

00:16:57.196 --> 00:17:16.859
The next thing I want to say to lay any concerns is that I went out of my way to not present this material in a mathematical way so that people who don't know mathematics or don't like mathematics would not be prevented from getting it.

00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:26.318
Yeah, so the experience you have when you read this book is not that you're studying math or science.

00:17:26.318 --> 00:17:36.115
It's more like you put on your eyeglasses and you can look in the mirror and you say, oh, I see, that's what's going on.

00:17:36.115 --> 00:17:39.499
Or you look, you put on your glasses and you look at another person.

00:17:39.499 --> 00:17:55.027
So each of these 35 scales is a lens that you can hold up to reality and see it like Sherlock Holmes would with his magnifying glass and see it in detail.

00:17:55.027 --> 00:17:56.150
Yeah.

00:17:56.851 --> 00:18:10.799
And then, when you understand what's going on, you're empowered to analyze it and consequently, predict what's going to happen and consequently, from that, manage your affair.

00:18:12.711 --> 00:18:25.040
OK, so you're not taking people through the kind of alchemical process or whatever it is that you went through in order to develop the system.

00:18:25.040 --> 00:18:41.961
It sounds like what you did was you discovered this information through, as you say, empirical observation over an extended period and you then spent another 20 years finding a way of articulating it so that people could understand it and use it.

00:18:41.961 --> 00:18:50.124
So no doubt you went through a very kind of multi-layered process to do that, I imagine.

00:18:50.124 --> 00:18:56.540
Are you able to share anything about what it was like for you going through that whole process?

00:18:58.369 --> 00:19:00.455
Well, hardly enough.

00:19:00.455 --> 00:19:02.101
You're the first person who's asked me that.

00:19:02.101 --> 00:19:06.096
You know I am.

00:19:06.096 --> 00:19:26.756
I used to think of myself as a polymathic scholar, although at this point it's more accurate to say I'm a polymathic intellectual and what it means to be a polymathic scholar is that you're not only interested in your area of expertise, you're interested in everything.

00:19:26.756 --> 00:19:37.858
So, as an example, I would learn the three laws of Lawson and the antalcule, which was also discovered by Newton, right?

00:19:37.858 --> 00:19:41.377
And then I would want to know who is this by Newton?

00:19:41.377 --> 00:19:45.557
How did he figure this out at age 25?

00:19:45.557 --> 00:19:49.236
And then I would wind up studying him.

00:19:49.236 --> 00:19:52.338
Well then you get into a whole world of psychology.

00:19:52.338 --> 00:19:59.819
You know who this man is, and that sort of thing happened to me continuously.

00:20:00.930 --> 00:20:06.661
So I was always seeing other subjects coming in on whatever I was studying.

00:20:06.661 --> 00:20:17.058
So, for example, I took 26 semesters of math, loved every minute of it, and so I'd see math everywhere I looked.

00:20:17.058 --> 00:20:41.700
So you know, I discovered when I was a teenager that I had to have separate groups of friends, because I had one group of friends with whom I would attend poetry readings and plays, another group of friends with whom I would attend science and math lectures.

00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:46.580
Another group of friends with whom I would play sports and so forth and so on.

00:20:46.580 --> 00:20:58.604
Yeah, and group of friends who I would play music, and none of these people liked one another, didn't want to know one another, they didn't want to talk to one another, but I got along with all of them, I just had to keep them separate.

00:20:58.604 --> 00:20:59.611
Yeah.

00:21:01.170 --> 00:21:08.442
So that was like my inherently polymathic personality coming out.

00:21:08.442 --> 00:21:12.680
You know, I belong to the math club in my school.

00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:16.659
Our idea of fun was getting together once a week and doing math.

00:21:16.659 --> 00:21:22.801
We're doing something beyond what was in the class, you know, was really getting into college levels.

00:21:22.801 --> 00:21:35.022
Well, I was the only guy in the football team in the math club, yeah, so I'm sure that all these guys in the math club were guys with glasses.

00:21:35.022 --> 00:21:38.118
I didn't wear glasses with glasses no skinny guys, you know.

00:21:38.118 --> 00:21:41.159
So they probably looked at me as a muscle bound guy.

00:21:41.159 --> 00:21:42.614
I said what's this guy?

00:21:42.614 --> 00:21:43.396
Doing in here.

00:21:43.690 --> 00:21:46.094
Yeah, how do you get in here?

00:21:46.094 --> 00:21:47.834
What is the mistake?

00:21:47.834 --> 00:21:52.901
So, you know, that sort of happened a lot, you know.

00:21:52.901 --> 00:22:02.596
Or I would talk to somebody on the football team about physics and they would just give me a blank stare.

00:22:04.351 --> 00:22:15.138
I can still remember the exact moment at which, at age 10, I found out that there were some children who did not like school.

00:22:15.138 --> 00:22:19.730
That was a real eye-opener to me.

00:22:19.730 --> 00:22:20.593
That was a shock.

00:22:20.593 --> 00:22:24.538
You mean, there are kids who don't like school.

00:22:24.538 --> 00:22:26.054
How can that be?

00:22:26.054 --> 00:22:28.595
Yeah, I love school.

00:22:28.595 --> 00:22:31.537
That's why I went to school for 28 years.

00:22:31.537 --> 00:22:48.296
Yes, so yeah, I remember we were doing law division on the blackboard and somehow the kid I was working with you know we were in teams mentioned something that, since you have to be in the lecture, I said, wait a minute.

00:22:48.296 --> 00:22:50.836
You mean you don't like school.

00:22:50.836 --> 00:22:52.816
He said, no, I don't like school.

00:22:52.816 --> 00:22:54.491
Wow.

00:22:54.491 --> 00:23:01.316
And then, of course, I realized most kids didn't like school, if they got that concept into my head.

00:23:01.316 --> 00:23:06.859
So that was, you know, part of being a weirdo.

00:23:06.859 --> 00:23:13.603
But I was only weird to people in contexts.

00:23:13.603 --> 00:23:18.494
In other words, when I would play sports with people, guys would get mediocre.

00:23:18.494 --> 00:23:21.315
You know, I could still hit the ball on the fan.

00:23:21.315 --> 00:23:24.775
Well, they accepted me.

00:23:24.775 --> 00:23:25.993
Yeah.

00:23:27.089 --> 00:23:29.698
So you know, that was sort of how my life went.

00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.200
Right, so you were showing up in all these different contexts, right?

00:23:35.211 --> 00:23:38.760
And all these things bled over into other things for me.

00:23:38.760 --> 00:23:50.795
So that eventually in my mind, all those subjects that you cited, that I have, at least in my mind, that's all one big thing.

00:23:50.795 --> 00:23:51.411
Yeah.

00:23:51.411 --> 00:24:08.076
Now, of course, when I was studying mathematics in prep school, you know, mathematics was just mathematics, but eventually it invaded my whole mind, so I saw it in everything.

00:24:08.076 --> 00:24:10.144
Yeah.

00:24:10.144 --> 00:24:13.660
And that pretty much happened with every you know like history.

00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:17.958
I know a lot of history, but to me history pervades everything.

00:24:17.958 --> 00:24:18.578
Yeah.

00:24:19.410 --> 00:24:24.079
So that's how I was able to see this for what it was.

00:24:25.470 --> 00:24:31.778
And when, fascinating, and when I was one of those people who was really surprised to discover that some children actually liked school.

00:24:31.778 --> 00:24:34.115
I was in the other group.

00:24:34.115 --> 00:24:39.494
I was doing it, you know, because I had to, but very, very different.

00:24:39.494 --> 00:24:49.477
You know I was more interested in learning through socialising and reading fantasy stuff.

00:24:49.477 --> 00:24:54.538
You know a completely different path of learning and growth from the one you describe.

00:24:54.538 --> 00:25:03.098
Right, you know, and I, of course, as a child, I probably would have thought you were a nerd and you probably would have thought I was flaky or something.

00:25:03.098 --> 00:25:08.496
But now at this point, I can listen to what you're saying and appreciate it.

00:25:08.496 --> 00:25:13.038
You know, find it interesting and revealing and informative.

00:25:13.038 --> 00:25:15.596
So I think that's another thing that happens, isn't it?

00:25:15.596 --> 00:25:23.457
As we go through life, we have different ways of relating with the fact that other people are very different from us sometimes.

00:25:24.369 --> 00:25:28.798
Yes, well, you know, I don't think I presented as a nerd at all.

00:25:28.798 --> 00:25:51.536
I mean, I was an athlete, I was a musician, I went out with girls and I was really in many ways, not a nerd in any way that makes sense to people, but it's just that I was insatiably curious and I was just a very good student.

00:25:51.536 --> 00:25:52.338
Yeah.

00:25:52.338 --> 00:26:05.156
And my when I, by the time I get out of college, the thing that I knew best was how to learn, or you might say how to study.

00:26:05.156 --> 00:26:07.873
It's kind of I'm not sure.

00:26:10.133 --> 00:26:12.439
I think how to learn is a bigger thing than how to study.

00:26:12.439 --> 00:26:14.694
Well, you know.

00:26:14.694 --> 00:26:25.556
But I mean this is it sounds like you were very, very engaged with all those things, whereas perhaps a lot of people, when they're younger, can't focus, for example.

00:26:25.556 --> 00:26:25.916
Yes.

00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:38.458
Even if they think something's interesting they're sort of obsessed with, does that person like me and they get distracted Right or wanting to go off and bunk off and do something else.

00:26:38.458 --> 00:26:41.093
So you were, yeah, In the way you describe it.

00:26:41.093 --> 00:26:48.615
You don't sound like you were one of those sort of lonely, disconnected kids who always got their head in a book.

00:26:48.615 --> 00:26:51.179
It sounds like you had quite a range.

00:26:51.179 --> 00:26:53.615
In fact, it sounds quite fun the way you describe it.

00:26:54.395 --> 00:26:54.957
It was.

00:26:54.957 --> 00:26:57.101
It was fun.

00:26:57.101 --> 00:26:58.063
It's still fun.

00:26:58.063 --> 00:26:59.615
It's just exhausting.

00:26:59.615 --> 00:27:10.838
You know, there was never a time when I didn't do my homework Never, okay, in fact, I was the guy who always did the extra credit project.

00:27:10.838 --> 00:27:34.201
It's Okay On top of it, but what would happen is I would go home from school, I would immediately do my homework and I was immediately out playing sport or meeting girl or playing in a band or all these other things that I did, you know, because I could learn things.

00:27:34.201 --> 00:27:37.678
Well see, I used to have a photographic memory.

00:27:37.678 --> 00:27:40.556
As I aged.

00:27:40.556 --> 00:27:44.916
It's sort of like everyone's memory starts to deteriorate after about 50.

00:27:44.916 --> 00:27:49.294
Right, so it's sort of there's only like bits and pieces, but I used to be able to.

00:27:49.294 --> 00:27:55.857
When I would take a test, the teacher would ask me you know a question via the test, right?

00:27:55.857 --> 00:28:07.201
And I would just open up the book in my mind to that page and copy the answer out of the book onto the page.

00:28:07.201 --> 00:28:07.790
Yeah.

00:28:08.710 --> 00:28:09.974
So it would be exactly right.

00:28:09.974 --> 00:28:22.820
So you know, that was just a very natural studying was very natural to me, and it still is.

00:28:22.820 --> 00:28:26.097
Yeah, and I'm still very curious about everything.

00:28:26.097 --> 00:28:36.560
And that led me to finding Septimax, which is really a boon to mankind, to the extent that people take advantage.

00:28:36.560 --> 00:28:42.593
But let me tell you what Septimax is, because I'm sure people are saying what is this thing that he's talking about?

00:28:42.593 --> 00:28:53.635
So Septimax is a philosophical science based on the fact that many phenomena related to human beings occur in a sequence of heaven level.

00:28:53.635 --> 00:28:58.602
Literally, the words Septimax means both were pertaining to seven.

00:29:00.810 --> 00:29:11.265
September comprises a collection of scales or hierarchies, each of which breaks down various human phenomena into a hierarchy of seven steps.

00:29:11.265 --> 00:29:39.650
There are 35 set scales, each of which is unique, and between them they span the spectrum of human experience, by which I mean any problem, difficulty, dilemma, situation, conundrum that any person has can successfully be analyzed by one or more of these scales, usually more than one.

00:29:39.650 --> 00:29:43.480
So let me give you an example of how you would use this.

00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:46.316
It's very practical.

00:29:46.316 --> 00:29:47.458
You have to understand.

00:29:47.458 --> 00:29:49.603
I went to an engineering school.

00:29:49.603 --> 00:29:50.505
We had our own building.

00:29:50.505 --> 00:29:51.748
There were 2,000 students.

00:29:51.748 --> 00:29:52.730
We were all very much alike.

00:29:52.730 --> 00:30:00.364
I know what engineers alike, were very practical people, not woo-woo-woo at all.

00:30:02.192 --> 00:30:05.135
Okay, so here's how it is.

00:30:05.135 --> 00:30:12.125
Let's say you have a girlfriend who's having a romance problem Very common problem, right?

00:30:12.125 --> 00:30:24.664
You have this girlfriend, betty, who keeps complaining to you I don't know what I'm going to do, husband, he's driving me crazy, we might get a divorce, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:30:24.664 --> 00:30:28.174
So you say, all right, betty, come up, let me show you something.

00:30:28.174 --> 00:30:33.752
And you open up the book to the scale of relationships and you show it to her.

00:30:33.752 --> 00:30:40.544
Now she will look at it and she will probably say you mean, there's a scale of relationships?

00:30:40.544 --> 00:30:48.356
And you say, yeah, there, it is this relationship that you've been complaining to me about for the last year.

00:30:48.356 --> 00:30:50.622
Where is it on this scale?

00:30:50.622 --> 00:30:54.696
And what will happen is in a matter of seconds.

00:30:54.877 --> 00:30:55.900
She will find a bracket.

00:30:55.900 --> 00:31:00.817
She will say, well, just the first plush.

00:31:00.817 --> 00:31:04.542
I can see it's definitely not one, two or three, because we're having a lot of trouble.

00:31:04.542 --> 00:31:08.535
And I can also see it's not seven.

00:31:08.535 --> 00:31:10.558
That has nothing to do with us.

00:31:10.558 --> 00:31:13.403
So it's going to be either four, five or six.

00:31:13.403 --> 00:31:16.513
And you say, okay, see, that's progress.

00:31:16.513 --> 00:31:18.616
She's just threw out four possibilities.

00:31:18.616 --> 00:31:23.285
And you say, okay, why don't you read the chapter and you can get this exactly.

00:31:23.285 --> 00:31:27.759
She's going to want to do that because you're opening a door for her.

00:31:29.632 --> 00:31:43.762
So she reads the chapter and you might help her the way to do it with somebody, to understand it, and then have her go back and say, okay, now look at it again, this relationship that you're in, where is it?

00:31:43.762 --> 00:31:45.952
And she will find it.

00:31:45.952 --> 00:31:50.825
She will say, well, now that I've read this, I can see we were at level five.

00:31:50.825 --> 00:31:57.017
No one are having trouble, that's not so good, it's way down there.

00:31:57.017 --> 00:32:01.723
Okay, and she will definitely have a realization.

00:32:01.723 --> 00:32:16.986
Yeah, because I already know from 28 years of observation anytime anyone correctly finds a level, whether it's his own level or someone else's level, he has some kind of epiphany.

00:32:16.986 --> 00:32:21.736
He says, oh, that's why I can't get along with Joe.

00:32:21.736 --> 00:32:25.721
He's bopity, bopity, bop and I'm this, this, this.

00:32:25.721 --> 00:32:28.424
That always happens.

00:32:28.424 --> 00:32:31.454
That's how you know you found the right level.

00:32:31.454 --> 00:32:36.384
If the person does not have that, he found it wrongly.

00:32:36.384 --> 00:32:37.250
Yeah.

00:32:37.912 --> 00:32:47.785
Yeah, okay, and then once someone's found that level, is there then guidance on ways to explore shifting?

00:32:48.809 --> 00:33:02.605
Yes, yes, there's a whole section in the introduction on how to use this to improve yourself and another whole section on how to use this to improve the techniques.

00:33:02.605 --> 00:33:14.285
Now let me finish my example, because after she has this realization about the scale of relationships, then you say, oh, now let me show you something else.

00:33:14.285 --> 00:33:19.358
And you, open to the scale of sexuality, say, do you mean to the scale of sexuality?

00:33:19.358 --> 00:33:24.713
Say, yes, where are you?

00:33:24.713 --> 00:33:30.561
You don't have to tell me If we are on illumination, where are you on the scale?

00:33:30.561 --> 00:33:34.790
She's going to want to know that I guarantee you.

00:33:34.790 --> 00:33:42.839
See, she already knows this works because she just did it, and so she'll look at it and she'll send.

00:33:44.582 --> 00:33:47.085
In a matter of seconds she'll find a bracket.

00:33:47.085 --> 00:33:51.935
Say, well, definitely not 607.

00:33:51.935 --> 00:33:52.897
That's our.

00:33:52.897 --> 00:33:59.650
Okay, now let's have you read the chapter and see if we can get to the exact same process.

00:33:59.650 --> 00:34:01.593
She'll show it, She'll come back.

00:34:01.593 --> 00:34:06.742
Okay, now you don't have to tell me what for your own illumination, where are you on the scale?

00:34:06.742 --> 00:34:12.922
Right, whether or not she tells you, she'll find oh, I can see, I'm at level four.

00:34:12.922 --> 00:34:19.942
No wonder I'm having trouble with Joe, because he's at level five and they can flip.

00:34:19.942 --> 00:34:26.463
If you look at that scale, you see that it's clear that there are levels that are incompatible.

00:34:26.463 --> 00:34:27.271
Yeah.

00:34:28.431 --> 00:34:30.914
Just obviously incompatible.

00:34:30.914 --> 00:34:34.418
So I already know two people.

00:34:34.418 --> 00:34:45.836
If they are not compatible on the scale, it doesn't matter how smart they are, how nice they are, how enlightened they are, they cannot have a successful romantic relationship if they conflict on this scale.

00:34:45.836 --> 00:34:49.983
They don't have to be at the same level, they have to be at a compatible level.

00:34:49.983 --> 00:34:57.519
So, you see, she'll have a big realization there, see, and that can mean a couple of things.

00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:04.858
See, she might just say I'm done with this thought and say go home and say I'm getting a divorce.

00:35:04.858 --> 00:35:10.518
Now you might say, well, she's going to be unhappy about that.

00:35:10.518 --> 00:35:12.201
No, she's not.

00:35:12.201 --> 00:35:20.644
Every time you find a correct level, you are happy about it, because it's the truth.

00:35:20.644 --> 00:35:22.710
There is an epiphany there.

00:35:22.710 --> 00:35:28.623
You just got smarter, you just had an insight into your own life.

00:35:28.623 --> 00:35:38.224
So this blob of cognitive dissonance that's been traveling, traveling around with you like a dark cloud, goes poof.

00:35:38.224 --> 00:35:41.596
Yeah, you see what's happening.

00:35:41.596 --> 00:35:44.581
She's not going to be bummed out about that.

00:35:46.570 --> 00:35:52.420
I can tell you I had several clients come to me right Because I know this material.

00:35:52.420 --> 00:35:56.364
Even before I started writing the book I had a lot of this material right.

00:35:56.364 --> 00:36:07.494
They would come to me and I would say this person would start working and I wouldn't know that this person was going to break up with their relationship Cause been your boyfriend or whatever.

00:36:07.494 --> 00:36:08.597
I would know that.

00:36:08.597 --> 00:36:10.041
I would never say that.

00:36:10.041 --> 00:36:17.083
You know they'd work with me, they'd be very happy Thank you so much, you know and they would go home and get a divorce.

00:36:17.083 --> 00:36:22.721
I can see that that's just knowing September.

00:36:23.769 --> 00:36:41.730
Yeah Well, I can certainly confirm that knowing the truth, even if the truth means that something's going to come to an end or there's going to be a loss of some sort, is a much better experience Than being in that horrible blob experience, as you described it cognitive dissonance, absolutely right.

00:36:41.730 --> 00:36:56.257
I'm also fascinated that you've named two of the scales relationships and sexuality which a person would think those are massive areas of life, and some people those are the only important areas of life, for example.

00:36:56.257 --> 00:37:01.730
And yet you said there are 35 scales, so those are just two of 35.

00:37:01.730 --> 00:37:03.132
That's right.

00:37:03.132 --> 00:37:08.322
So you know, my hearing's mind immediately thinks right, I must go and find out what the other 33 are.

00:37:09.974 --> 00:37:10.737
I'll tell you right now.

00:37:10.737 --> 00:37:11.559
Go on then.

00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:17.710
Okay, so there are 24 individual scales, meaning they apply primarily to individual work.

00:37:17.710 --> 00:37:21.561
There are 11 group scales, meaning they apply primarily to groups.

00:37:21.561 --> 00:37:45.726
These are the individual scale, the scale of basic purposeness, the scale of personal choice, the scale pardon me the scale of personal influence, the scale of choice, the scale of permeation, the scale of thought, the scale of identity, the scale of evaluation, the scale of motivation, the scale of control, the scale of stopping, the scale of scholarship.

00:37:45.726 --> 00:38:25.014
And these are the group scale this is what we call a scale of lesson the scale of government, the scale of civilization, the scale of survival, the scale of management, the scale of exchange, the scale of communication, the scale of allegiance, the scale of sexuality and the scale of power.

00:38:25.014 --> 00:38:35.460
Any one of these 35 skills by itself has the potential to dramatically improve the life of the reader.

00:38:36.612 --> 00:38:37.596
I can hear that yeah.

00:38:39.110 --> 00:38:47.677
Because I'm sure you can see, I have covered human phenomena, because each of these scales is unique.

00:38:47.677 --> 00:38:51.637
Excuse me, it covers everything.

00:38:51.637 --> 00:39:02.936
You see, if they were not unique if there were some, each one is a different version of the other it wouldn't be as broad, because each unique it's very broad.

00:39:02.936 --> 00:39:12.717
Yeah, which is why I know from direct observation it doesn't matter what situation you have going on, you can use this book to resolve it.

00:39:12.717 --> 00:39:20.719
Yeah, now I used, for example, in our hypothetical I used I talked about two specific scales.

00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:22.677
I could have kept going.

00:39:22.677 --> 00:39:35.155
I could have given you a half a dozen other scales, because when you get to something complex like an interpersonal relationship between two people, that's very complicated.

00:39:35.155 --> 00:39:35.717
Yeah.

00:39:36.829 --> 00:39:38.615
And any scales are going to apply.

00:39:38.615 --> 00:39:45.778
Exactly the scale of leaders the scale of choice, the scale of control.

00:39:45.778 --> 00:39:54.541
I mean, these are all big factors, yeah, okay, and so any one of these scales alone?

00:39:54.541 --> 00:39:57.657
I could write a whole book on each one of these scales.

00:39:57.657 --> 00:40:06.177
I'm not going to do that, but because, Because nobody lives forever.

00:40:07.596 --> 00:40:10.592
Yes, yeah, I mean you.

00:40:10.592 --> 00:40:16.864
Frankly, nobody, nobody could actually accuse you of not having knuckled down and engaged with your task.

00:40:16.864 --> 00:40:21.568
Jim, that's right, I think you definitely made a contribution, yeah.

00:40:22.050 --> 00:40:26.936
My knuckles are very sore, it's okay, so.

00:40:26.936 --> 00:40:31.730
So let me tell you how, in a general way, Subtemics is beneficial.

00:40:31.730 --> 00:40:35.255
Okay, I wrote this book to help people.

00:40:35.255 --> 00:40:38.710
I have had a lifetime of helping people.

00:40:38.710 --> 00:40:41.539
Even as a child I was helping people.

00:40:41.539 --> 00:40:44.518
I've helped hundreds and hundreds of people.

00:40:44.518 --> 00:40:56.730
Each of these scales provides the user with an infallible way of determining the salutaryness or beneficialness of any group, individual or activity.

00:40:56.730 --> 00:41:02.376
If the group, individual or activity moves persons up the scale, it's a beneficial appouser.

00:41:02.376 --> 00:41:05.639
If it moves them down, it's detrimental or negative.

00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:13.710
I'm giving you a yardstick 35 yardsticks for measuring human phenomena.

00:41:13.710 --> 00:41:16.115
This is entirely new.

00:41:16.115 --> 00:41:17.539
Yeah, Okay.

00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:27.730
More importantly, just finding out what level you or another person is at on any scale is by itself enlightening and beneficial.

00:41:27.730 --> 00:41:34.994
As I said, when you find the right level, you have a realization, Always, yeah.

00:41:34.994 --> 00:41:48.018
And finally, once you know the actual level of a person on any scale, you can improve that person by moving them up one level at a time.

00:41:48.018 --> 00:41:59.217
This is very significant because I have solved the gradient problem that his bedeviled mankind for 6,000 years.

00:42:00.380 --> 00:42:03.317
Okay, so explain what you mean by the gradient problem.

00:42:03.317 --> 00:42:04.340
Okay.

00:42:05.170 --> 00:42:11.648
So most people have problems, difficulties, dilemmas, situations don't know how to solve them.

00:42:11.648 --> 00:42:16.054
The reason they can't solve them is they don't know the gradient.

00:42:16.054 --> 00:42:19.730
I have worked as a professional trainer.

00:42:19.730 --> 00:42:24.275
A guy come to me, let's say a guy comes to me and says 100 pounds overweight.

00:42:24.275 --> 00:42:27.375
I said, jim, I've been trying to fix this for years.

00:42:27.375 --> 00:42:28.277
Put it on what to do.

00:42:28.277 --> 00:42:29.559
Will you train?

00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:30.440
Okay, why?

00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:31.809
So?

00:42:31.809 --> 00:42:35.521
I'm not going to just give this guy a 100 pound dark bar balance.

00:42:35.521 --> 00:42:39.079
They go work with this or tell them go out and run five miles.

00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:42.673
That's bad training, it's malpractice.

00:42:43.849 --> 00:42:49.233
I would say to him do you think maybe you could walk one mile every morning?

00:42:49.233 --> 00:42:50.719
Right?

00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:53.858
I'm probably going to say, oh, yeah, I could do that.

00:42:53.858 --> 00:42:56.730
That's okay, I want you to do that.

00:42:56.730 --> 00:43:00.730
And at the end of the week talk to me again, right?

00:43:00.730 --> 00:43:04.155
So at the end of the week I talk to him and he's going to all say how did you do?

00:43:04.155 --> 00:43:12.797
And if he says this is killing me, this is tough, I'd say keep doing it.

00:43:12.797 --> 00:43:15.315
See, he's doing it.

00:43:15.315 --> 00:43:19.476
He says, all right, keep doing it and we'll talk next week.

00:43:19.476 --> 00:43:29.496
If he said to me he said okay, I got this, now I could do more, I'd say great, let's go to two mile.

00:43:29.496 --> 00:43:30.532
See how that.

00:43:32.634 --> 00:43:37.635
Now five years later you come back and this guy looks like a bodybuilder.

00:43:37.635 --> 00:43:38.318
Yeah.

00:43:39.072 --> 00:43:42.994
See, if he stayed with me, I would keep using the gradients.

00:43:42.994 --> 00:43:47.730
That is how I succeeded as human development engineer.

00:43:47.730 --> 00:44:04.202
So I would pick up the client at the level he was in, whatever area is if he's interested in, and then I would gradiently move him up to the next level.

00:44:04.202 --> 00:44:11.161
So you cannot make a couch potato in an Olympic athlete to an Olympic athlete.

00:44:11.161 --> 00:44:12.664
It's impossible, can't be done.

00:44:12.664 --> 00:44:14.396
There are too many intervening levels.

00:44:14.396 --> 00:44:24.876
A couch potato you could turn him into like maybe a normal person, and once he's a normal person, maybe then you could get him to be an amateur athlete.

00:44:24.876 --> 00:44:34.481
You see, yeah, so these seven levels on each of these 35 scales are the gradients.

00:44:35.121 --> 00:44:36.384
Yeah, I understand what you mean.

00:44:36.384 --> 00:44:41.239
Yeah, in my work I would call that the transition.

00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:45.641
It's like the various stages you go through and I think you're right.

00:44:45.641 --> 00:44:56.206
A lot of people look at right, I've got this problem situation and I want it to be like X, whatever it is, and they can't go from there to there in one step.

00:44:56.206 --> 00:44:56.670
It's not possible.

00:44:56.670 --> 00:45:09.572
And then they get discouraged and upset and stuff and stop trying, whereas, equally, if they take a step in that direction, that's too small.

00:45:09.572 --> 00:45:11.277
Equally, that's not going to work.

00:45:11.277 --> 00:45:12.400
That's right.

00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:18.177
So I like your example of you know, could you do this and then you review it, right?

00:45:18.177 --> 00:45:21.057
Also, in your example, you just had him do it for one week.

00:45:21.057 --> 00:45:28.094
You didn't say I want you to do this every single day for a year, you know, because that's too long.

00:45:28.094 --> 00:45:31.539
You know it's just got to get them to Burry.

00:45:31.539 --> 00:45:35.199
You Get started on it and then you review it and pick it up.

00:45:36.172 --> 00:45:42.117
And let me tell you with specificity why people do not get discouraged in using this book.

00:45:42.117 --> 00:45:51.380
Yeah, if you are, let's say hypothetically, level four and you make a serious effort, you will get to level three.

00:45:51.380 --> 00:46:00.177
You will Now what you have to do, how much effort it's going to take, how much time it's going to take.

00:46:00.177 --> 00:46:03.670
These are wild variables, nobody knows that.

00:46:03.670 --> 00:46:07.300
But if you make an effort you will get from four to three.

00:46:07.300 --> 00:46:13.730
If you try to go to one or two, you will fail because it's too steep a gradient.

00:46:13.730 --> 00:46:17.730
So the way this works is you find what level the person is at.

00:46:17.730 --> 00:46:20.297
He has to find it himself.

00:46:20.297 --> 00:46:23.235
Then he has a realization.

00:46:23.235 --> 00:46:27.380
That realization opens his mind to what's going on.

00:46:27.380 --> 00:46:36.195
Then you'd say, okay, let's target you for this next level of level, okay, and he will get there.

00:46:36.195 --> 00:46:37.038
Yeah.

00:46:37.990 --> 00:46:50.217
Now, when he gets there, he's going to say this works, you see, and then, once he's stable at that level, he could then go to the next level if he wishes.

00:46:50.217 --> 00:47:09.242
So, basically, this book gives you 35 roadmap for success and, as I said, most situations can be analyzed by more than one setup, so you can be working at it in different ways.

00:47:09.242 --> 00:47:09.952
Yeah.

00:47:12.673 --> 00:47:14.498
So on one scale you're at one level.

00:47:14.498 --> 00:47:20.795
Another level you might be at a different level, see, and you target the next level up and you ignore everything else.

00:47:20.795 --> 00:47:26.521
Yeah, one size does not fit all.

00:47:26.521 --> 00:47:28.255
That is definitely wrong.

00:47:28.255 --> 00:47:31.077
I see this every day on the internet.

00:47:31.077 --> 00:47:42.914
You know, if you take this vitamin, you will bup-a-dup-a-dup-a-dup you know, One of our practices says oh, I can fix anything you know, or not get much spoke, they're all wrong.

00:47:42.914 --> 00:47:45.557
It's never just one thing.

00:47:45.557 --> 00:47:49.155
There is a gestural.

00:47:49.155 --> 00:47:52.237
You have to come at it from many directions.

00:47:52.237 --> 00:47:53.552
Yeah.

00:47:54.949 --> 00:47:55.894
And that is true.

00:47:55.894 --> 00:48:09.679
See, every good coach, therapist, facilitator, a teacher in the world understands that human development must occur on a gradient.

00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:14.077
The ones who don't know that are not good at it.

00:48:14.077 --> 00:48:21.061
You know, the ones who know that understand the gradient.

00:48:21.061 --> 00:48:24.679
So let's say you have a good algebra teacher.

00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:32.248
He knows how to teach algebra, so you know, he takes the student across.

00:48:32.248 --> 00:48:32.610
Okay, you got that.

00:48:32.610 --> 00:48:33.679
Okay, now you got this.

00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:35.121
Okay, now you got that.

00:48:35.121 --> 00:48:35.304
See.

00:48:35.304 --> 00:48:44.206
And somebody asks the question, he answers it, he explains it and by the end of this two semesters you understand algebra.

00:48:44.206 --> 00:48:48.722
See, that's using the gradient.

00:48:50.576 --> 00:48:57.739
So that is why this book is like a massive formula for success, because you find whatever situation is bugging you.

00:48:57.739 --> 00:49:04.382
You say, okay, what's the scale that works here, right.

00:49:04.382 --> 00:49:07.010
And you try to find your level on that scale.

00:49:07.010 --> 00:49:13.677
Or you could try to find somebody else's level because, even though you're not gonna tell them, it's better if you understand it, right.

00:49:13.677 --> 00:49:21.190
So let's say you're having trouble with an employee, you're not gonna tell them, you're gonna tell them, you're gonna tell them, okay.

00:49:21.210 --> 00:49:29.054
So let's say you're having trouble with an employee, right, you don't know what's going on with Smith, you're not as confident.

00:49:29.054 --> 00:49:40.056
But you look at a certain scale, you say, oh, I see this guy's at this level on this scale, so that is why he's having trouble.

00:49:40.056 --> 00:49:45.717
Now you might be able to get him in and say, smith, come here, look at this scale of choice.

00:49:45.717 --> 00:49:48.416
I mean the scale of choice.

00:49:48.416 --> 00:49:51.317
Yeah, where are you on the scale?

00:49:51.317 --> 00:49:54.398
You don't have to tell me, but you figure it out.

00:49:54.398 --> 00:49:56.295
See, we go through that same process.

00:49:56.295 --> 00:50:04.536
Yeah, so then once he finds it and he has epiphany, then you can help him go up to the next level.

00:50:06.809 --> 00:50:13.278
So let me give you a very concrete example that most people will want to hear.

00:50:13.278 --> 00:50:17.762
Most people have children and most children have trouble in school.

00:50:17.762 --> 00:50:24.393
Yeah, now the book explains what specificity, why people have trouble in school and tells you how to solve them.

00:50:24.393 --> 00:50:31.896
But dad sees that Junior is having trouble, he's complaining he's getting bad grades.

00:50:31.896 --> 00:50:34.996
So dad says come over here, junior, let me show you this.

00:50:34.996 --> 00:50:40.286
He opens up the book to the scale of scholarship.

00:50:40.286 --> 00:50:44.755
Well, presumably this kid is old enough to know what the word scholarship means, right?

00:50:44.755 --> 00:50:46.255
We're not talking about a secure old kid.

00:50:46.255 --> 00:50:49.077
Say the kid's 12, right, junior?

00:50:49.077 --> 00:50:54.760
Hi, he knows he's a scholar, he knows he's having trouble, right?

00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:57.657
So he's gonna say you mean there's a scale of scholarship.

00:50:57.657 --> 00:51:07.900
And the dad can say, yeah, you are somewhere on this scale and if you can find it we can help you do better.

00:51:07.900 --> 00:51:17.737
Oh, really See, he'll go through the same process and say well, I can see right off the bat, I'm not at one, two or three.

00:51:18.469 --> 00:51:25.916
I'm not a good student, that's way over my head I also, I can see I'm not at five or six, that doesn't even make sense.

00:51:25.916 --> 00:51:29.157
Or maybe at four or five.

00:51:29.157 --> 00:51:31.556
See, that happens in a second.

00:51:31.556 --> 00:51:33.253
And he said okay, read it.

00:51:33.253 --> 00:51:38.677
Then he comes back and you say hey, so where are you right?

00:51:38.677 --> 00:51:42.697
And the kid will say well, I can see, now that I've read this, I'm at level five.

00:51:42.697 --> 00:51:46.753
No wonder I'm having trouble at school, you see.

00:51:46.753 --> 00:51:55.016
And then the dad can say okay, let's move you to level four, and then you'll be doing better.

00:51:55.016 --> 00:51:57.094
Well, the kid's gonna wanna do that.

00:51:58.090 --> 00:52:04.998
Yeah so I tell you in that chapter with specificity how to make someone a better scholar.

00:52:04.998 --> 00:52:08.117
There's no vagueness in this book.

00:52:08.891 --> 00:52:20.702
I am whore vagueness and it also seems like you're removing the element of judgmentalism or self-judgmentalism.

00:52:20.702 --> 00:52:27.559
Because you're not saying right, this is why you're a hopeless case.

00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:43.298
It sounds like in the situation everybody can find in, amongst those various different scales, areas where they're doing really well or not well in other areas, et cetera, so they can see where they can do some work.

00:52:43.298 --> 00:52:54.396
But also I love that example with the kid because what you're also doing is you're inviting him to be more autonomous because he's identifying his own assessment.

00:52:55.030 --> 00:53:01.094
And so many of us at school were always assessed by other people and they were not asked for our own assessment.

00:53:01.094 --> 00:53:07.838
And you're also teaching him critical thinking and self-awareness just in the process of doing it.

00:53:08.710 --> 00:53:08.972
Is that right?

00:53:10.952 --> 00:53:11.574
Which is powerful.

00:53:11.574 --> 00:53:21.554
There was something you said to me before we started recording and I'd love you to speak about, where you said you must not tell somebody else what level they're at.

00:53:21.554 --> 00:53:26.213
Yes, I love that and I'd love you to talk about that a little bit, if you would, for the listeners.

00:53:26.494 --> 00:53:30.818
Okay, it's actually slightly broader than you stated it.

00:53:31.219 --> 00:53:31.460
Okay.

00:53:32.050 --> 00:53:41.782
The way I stated it is never tell any living person the level of any living person on any scale, Okay.

00:53:41.782 --> 00:53:50.813
So when it comes to yourself, Uh-huh, okay, so, final level, I'm not saying to tell people what level you're at.

00:53:50.813 --> 00:53:53.336
I say don't do that.

00:53:53.336 --> 00:54:13.757
No, you might have an isolated circumstance with someone you're very close to, where there's such a bond that there isn't gonna be any judgementalism anyway, because there's an intimacy, you know, like a close friend or spouse.

00:54:13.757 --> 00:54:20.137
Yeah, but it would be an exception, but it certainly wouldn't be going in and telling them.

00:54:20.137 --> 00:54:24.976
It would be more like well, yeah, I found my level.

00:54:24.976 --> 00:54:25.612
Do you see, John?

00:54:25.612 --> 00:54:26.896
You look, yeah, I found my level.

00:54:26.896 --> 00:54:29.251
Well, I'll tell you honestly, it's all yours, you know.

00:54:29.251 --> 00:54:30.556
That's what I'm saying.

00:54:30.617 --> 00:54:35.539
Yeah, but other than that, it's counterproductive and unethical.

00:54:35.539 --> 00:54:44.141
It's counterproductive because when the person finds his level, he has an epiphany.

00:54:44.141 --> 00:54:56.061
You don't wanna take that away from him and to have that, you want him to say oh, now I see why I don't get along with Fred.

00:54:56.061 --> 00:55:01.202
He's at this lower level on this, let's run, he's nuts.

00:55:01.202 --> 00:55:03.251
Now.

00:55:03.251 --> 00:55:05.436
What he does with that is another thing.

00:55:05.436 --> 00:55:11.699
It might just be something that the relationship gets better, because when Fred gets into that little area.

00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:13.315
He sort of knows what he's looking at.

00:55:13.315 --> 00:55:17.775
Or he might just say I don't wanna deal with this anymore.

00:55:17.775 --> 00:55:18.630
Yeah.

00:55:19.675 --> 00:55:20.538
I get that totally.

00:55:20.538 --> 00:55:40.711
I think that's such a beautiful point because I think some of us and I don't think this is one of my particular flaws, I have others, but some of us, if we come across something like this, we just wanna walk in and go right, you, you're a five, and that's why you need to change and lots more.

00:55:40.711 --> 00:55:44.594
On this other scale, here you're a seven and on this one, you're a six.

00:55:45.329 --> 00:55:46.596
And you need to shape up.

00:55:46.596 --> 00:55:53.253
They don't realize that by doing that, they're demonstrating that they are a seven on one of the other scales.

00:55:53.253 --> 00:55:56.737
Like are we gonna waiting in on people like that?

00:55:57.829 --> 00:56:02.137
You can do, if you wish, a complete septemic analysis of a person.

00:56:02.137 --> 00:56:11.378
Yeah, there are three of them at the back of the book Actual people that I knew very well and I assessed them across 35 scales.

00:56:11.378 --> 00:56:19.193
Now, it is to say I didn't mention any names, I didn't mention gender, I didn't mention age, there's no way to tell.

00:56:19.193 --> 00:56:26.666
They're just called subject one, subject two, subject three, and you can see what a full septemic analysis looks like.

00:56:26.666 --> 00:56:39.688
Perfect, you go high and something's low enough, and I sort of talk about how well, this person was low in this scale, but you might not be able to see that easily because he's high in this other scale.

00:56:39.688 --> 00:56:47.690
Sometimes one masks another and this gives you a realistic perception of a person.

00:56:47.690 --> 00:56:50.976
You see what's there.

00:56:50.976 --> 00:56:53.161
So think about this.

00:56:53.161 --> 00:57:07.693
Let's say, if you invited me to your home and said, jim, come and look at my guard, I'd say great, I come over and it's oh, you have nasturtiums, you have hydrangeas, you have tulips, you have forget-me-nots, you have roses.

00:57:07.693 --> 00:57:10.914
Right, I can do that because I know flowers.

00:57:10.914 --> 00:57:11.637
Yeah.

00:57:12.318 --> 00:57:12.478
Right.

00:57:12.478 --> 00:57:24.079
If you bring some little kid in there who doesn't know any of that, he just says, oh, these are pretty in there, different colors, he, he, he gets all he can cost.

00:57:24.079 --> 00:57:33.474
Most people are like that little kid as regards people, they don't know what they're looking at.

00:57:33.474 --> 00:57:43.271
So, for example, if you know a little botany, a tulip is completely different from a rose, completely.

00:57:43.271 --> 00:57:46.536
A rose is in the same family as an apple.

00:57:46.536 --> 00:57:53.373
A rose genetically has much more common with an apple than it does with a tulip.

00:57:53.373 --> 00:57:54.731
Yeah.

00:57:55.769 --> 00:57:59.900
So see, when you know botany, you know plants.

00:57:59.900 --> 00:58:03.438
So I know people the way a botanist was done.

00:58:03.438 --> 00:58:17.699
Or to go back to my career as a human development engineer, I understood people the same way an aeronautical engineer understands airplane, the same way an automotive engineer understands cars.

00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:26.719
So eventually, this led me to find this material, and put it in this, fascinating.

00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:31.998
So let me tell you one sentence that really brings this into focus.

00:58:31.998 --> 00:58:50.166
The data in this book are vital for every human being and can help you to achieve your goals faster and easier by explaining what might otherwise seem to be inexplicable or random.

00:58:50.166 --> 00:58:51.010
Yeah, yeah.

00:58:52.940 --> 00:59:03.309
So if somebody were to invite me to a rendezvous, you would certainly expect them to tell you the date, the time, the location and perhaps not to get there.

00:59:03.309 --> 00:59:05.429
Yeah, needless to say.

00:59:05.429 --> 00:59:18.918
Needless to say, it's very difficult to get somewhere If you don't know where you are, where it's starting out from, don't know where you're going and or don't know how to get to your destination.

00:59:18.918 --> 00:59:24.898
Now, this sounds idiotic, but most people do this regularly.

00:59:24.898 --> 00:59:35.920
Most people do not know where they are, where they're going and how to get there, and this book solves that across 35 axes.

00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:38.635
Furthermore, I have to explain.

00:59:39.210 --> 00:59:41.237
There are general scales and specific scales.

00:59:41.237 --> 00:59:47.956
Now, in a general scale, once you use it on a person, whether it's yourself or another, you're done.

00:59:47.956 --> 00:59:51.259
You can try to move up, but you're done with it.

00:59:51.259 --> 00:59:58.981
In other words, it is a general fact, like, for example, every person has a basic purpose.

00:59:58.981 --> 01:00:01.376
There are only seven basic purposes.

01:00:01.376 --> 01:00:04.778
Everybody has one of them and they're on that scale.

01:00:04.778 --> 01:00:26.079
So when you find your basic purpose, if it's a major epiphany, it changes your life you throw out the other six and you say this is for me, this is who I am, this is, and it clarifies your whole life, as opposed to a specific scale.

01:00:26.690 --> 01:00:29.998
A specific scale is context-driven.

01:00:29.998 --> 01:00:32.335
It has no general meaning.

01:00:32.335 --> 01:00:35.818
For example, take the scale of motivation.

01:00:35.818 --> 01:00:45.556
You could figure out what's my motivation toward my spouse, what's my motivation toward my son, what's my motivation toward my mother, what's my motivation toward my next door neighbor.

01:00:45.556 --> 01:00:53.918
Or, perhaps even more important is, what is my boss's motivation toward me, what is my boyfriend's motivation toward me?

01:00:53.918 --> 01:00:57.469
What is my business partner's motivation toward me?

01:00:57.469 --> 01:01:01.576
So you say you could take that scale and use it hundreds of ways.

01:01:01.576 --> 01:01:11.775
Yeah, so if you take that a little bit yet I just gave you and blow it up a billion times in every direction, you get what this book is about.

01:01:12.130 --> 01:01:13.315
Yeah, yeah, I get it.

01:01:14.190 --> 01:01:15.451
Yeah, okay.

01:01:15.451 --> 01:01:33.016
So I've got a question which is, I think, and a lot of people think that there's also a value in being in a state of not knowing, being in a state of open to any possibility about oneself or about life.

01:01:33.016 --> 01:01:47.755
Now, I'm sure you've come across that idea yourself in your studies, and the reason I'm raising it now is because you're talking about a body of work where people can find things out very specifically and have an experience of knowing.

01:01:47.755 --> 01:02:03.059
So I'd like to hear from you your take on that other perspective around the value of not knowing, and it won't surprise me if you tell me that you've borne that in mind in the working of septemics.

01:02:03.059 --> 01:02:08.576
So this is quite a sort of left field kind of question in relationship to what we've been talking about.

01:02:09.849 --> 01:02:27.498
Okay, well, let me first say you posited two scenarios and I'm gonna object to the premise of the question because there's a difference between being open to possibilities and not knowing.

01:02:27.498 --> 01:02:46.275
Yeah, so one of the things that I have been using in continuously in my career and in my life is the datum that a problem can only exist if there's unknown.

01:02:46.275 --> 01:02:51.309
Let's say, a guy is being audited by the IRS.

01:02:51.309 --> 01:02:52.981
He's American, right.

01:02:52.981 --> 01:02:58.590
He's a nervous wreck, can't sleep, he's drinking, big problem, right.

01:02:58.590 --> 01:02:59.833
You know why?

01:02:59.833 --> 01:03:01.074
He doesn't know.

01:03:01.074 --> 01:03:02.887
He doesn't know what they're going to find.

01:03:02.887 --> 01:03:04.398
He doesn't know what they're going to say.

01:03:04.398 --> 01:03:06.045
He doesn't know what they're going to do.

01:03:06.045 --> 01:03:08.146
He doesn't know how to respond.

01:03:08.146 --> 01:03:12.190
He doesn't know what papers to get together.

01:03:12.190 --> 01:03:14.489
See, it's loaded with unknowns.

01:03:14.489 --> 01:03:26.760
So I would get a precedent session and I would get them to spot all of the unknown and by that, at some point he would say you know, it's not a problem.

01:03:26.760 --> 01:03:29.568
This is something I have to deal with.

01:03:29.568 --> 01:03:30.271
Yeah.

01:03:30.942 --> 01:03:36.358
He stops worrying about knowledge, forestall problem.

01:03:36.358 --> 01:03:42.599
Now remember I said find a person who has the problem, the difficulty situation, right.

01:03:42.599 --> 01:03:55.518
There are unknowns there and by helping them to find known that are relevant, some of those unknowns are dispersed.

01:03:55.518 --> 01:03:55.800
I understand.

01:03:55.820 --> 01:03:59.400
Okay, so you're talking about situations where there's a problem.

01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:06.418
It's really beneficial to find the knowns in relationship to that problem.

01:04:06.418 --> 01:04:11.438
Yes, but then of course there are other situations in life where there isn't a problem.

01:04:11.438 --> 01:04:13.170
That's right, and that's a whole different experience.

01:04:13.170 --> 01:04:13.572
That's right.

01:04:13.572 --> 01:04:24.300
So let's say somebody is in a place in their life where they don't really have problems, they feel really good about life, they really feel like they're in the groove, et cetera.

01:04:24.300 --> 01:04:28.000
How might that person get value from septemics?

01:04:30.143 --> 01:04:37.860
Because that person is going to have friend, relative, business partners, employees, right.

01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:46.880
Let's say you have a guy who's got 170 IQ, who's got $10 million in the bank, he's got a supermodel for a wife, he lives in a mansion.

01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:51.233
This guy's got 200 employees, right.

01:04:51.233 --> 01:05:01.300
So now one of his managers is showing up late, seeming dispersed, not getting the job done.

01:05:01.300 --> 01:05:06.985
So I write to you, say Johnson, come over here, what's going on with you, what's going on with you?

01:05:06.985 --> 01:05:15.509
And Johnson will, if you are a safe terminal for communication, will tell you.

01:05:15.509 --> 01:05:20.916
Well, I don't want to bring it up, but my wife left me and I've been drinking.

01:05:20.916 --> 01:05:28.590
Big situation Get out the book, yeah, you see.

01:05:28.590 --> 01:05:33.590
Yeah, when you can say Johnson, all right, so you have this relationship with your wife.

01:05:33.590 --> 01:05:35.947
Let's take a look at the scale of relationship.

01:05:35.947 --> 01:05:42.030
Okay, so you have this situation where you're drinking is out of control.

01:05:42.030 --> 01:05:46.451
Look at the scale of control, right.

01:05:46.451 --> 01:05:46.911
Yeah.

01:05:47.139 --> 01:05:48.806
So, you sense yeah.

01:05:49.148 --> 01:05:50.822
Perfect, yeah, and so so now?

01:05:50.822 --> 01:05:54.711
So now, johnson, you sort him out, right?

01:05:54.711 --> 01:06:03.911
He stops being a drunk, he just starts dating again instead of worrying about his wife, and now he's back for doing his regular job.

01:06:03.911 --> 01:06:04.632
Yeah, yeah.

01:06:05.295 --> 01:06:06.137
Brilliant.

01:06:06.137 --> 01:06:06.679
Thank you very much.

01:06:06.679 --> 01:06:17.175
I mean, I feel like we could talk about this for hours and end, because we don't have time to do that, but you've sort of segwayed a little bit into my next question, which is about leadership.

01:06:17.175 --> 01:06:38.713
So in the world at the moment, I think we can agree we're in interesting times and there are a lot of difficulties in the world itself, and there are a lot of people in leadership positions and I'm including people who just want to be better leaders in their own lives and some of these people are listening to this podcast, you know, and they want to be part of a solution.

01:06:38.713 --> 01:06:48.014
So is there something you'd like to say to those people in relationship to what we've been talking about today?

01:06:49.456 --> 01:06:51.500
Yes, get the book.

01:06:51.500 --> 01:06:52.021
The book.

01:06:52.021 --> 01:06:57.068
It is a textbook on an entirely new subject.

01:06:57.068 --> 01:07:00.574
Study it, don't read it.

01:07:00.574 --> 01:07:07.293
Study it the way you would study a chemistry text, a physics text, a math text, an economics text.

01:07:07.293 --> 01:07:13.306
You start on line one, page one, and when you understand that, go to line two.

01:07:13.306 --> 01:07:17.469
Okay, I'm working all the way through to the end of the book.

01:07:17.469 --> 01:07:18.505
It'll take some time.

01:07:18.505 --> 01:07:32.672
And when you're done, go back to the beginning, read it again and then find your level on every scale, and by the time you get through the second reading, you'll be a new person.

01:07:32.672 --> 01:07:35.710
Your mind will be clearer.

01:07:35.710 --> 01:07:37.380
You'll understand what's going on.

01:07:38.943 --> 01:07:44.599
See, you might have gotten rid of some people who you found to be very downscale people.

01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:46.579
Now you know why you get rid of them.

01:07:46.579 --> 01:07:49.831
They're not a thorn in your side.

01:07:49.831 --> 01:07:52.099
Or other people who you see are very upscale people.

01:07:52.099 --> 01:07:54.028
You might promote them.

01:07:55.282 --> 01:07:59.032
When I was a young person, obviously this material didn't exist.

01:07:59.032 --> 01:08:04.771
I hadn't discovered it yet, so I made the same stupid mistakes that everybody else made.

01:08:04.771 --> 01:08:12.653
Now that cannot happen, does not happen, will not happen in my life.

01:08:12.653 --> 01:08:17.969
Because I look at a person and I can analyze them.

01:08:17.969 --> 01:08:21.148
Oh, this is an upscale person in the downscope.

01:08:21.148 --> 01:08:25.787
Okay, this person is high on this scale, not so high on this scale, tells me what to do.

01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:27.886
I'll give you a perfect example.

01:08:27.886 --> 01:08:36.765
If you said, uh, no, clinton is coming over to my house, Would you like to join us?

01:08:36.765 --> 01:08:41.583
I mean say, yes, he's a very smart man.

01:08:41.583 --> 01:08:44.211
Okay, a Rhodes scholar.

01:08:44.211 --> 01:08:48.792
He's the last American president ever to sign a balanced budget.

01:08:48.792 --> 01:08:54.349
Then you could say, well, the Republicans forced him into it, and there's some truth to that.

01:08:54.349 --> 01:09:00.150
But he was smart enough to give the people what they wanted, so he's left.

01:09:00.150 --> 01:09:01.585
I don't need to get me elected.

01:09:01.585 --> 01:09:03.422
He put a high appeal rate.

01:09:03.422 --> 01:09:06.591
Okay, very smart man.

01:09:06.591 --> 01:09:09.287
I happen to know a lot about political science.

01:09:09.287 --> 01:09:12.829
I would love to talk to him about that area.

01:09:12.829 --> 01:09:14.887
He knows what he's talking about.

01:09:14.887 --> 01:09:24.614
However, if I had a daughter or sister, I would say to them don't go out with Bill Clinton, right?

01:09:24.614 --> 01:09:31.692
It is a widely known fact that he is a serial abuser of women.

01:09:33.274 --> 01:09:36.100
Okay, I'm not telling tales out of school there.

01:09:36.100 --> 01:09:38.815
Everybody who's been paying attention knows this.

01:09:38.815 --> 01:09:43.585
Yeah, he got sued by many women for his abuse of the he.

01:09:43.585 --> 01:09:54.807
That's how he wound up getting impeached, because he perjured himself and he obstructed Okay, or he was the word.

01:09:54.807 --> 01:09:57.547
So morning perjury, right.

01:09:57.547 --> 01:10:08.467
So that's why he got impeached, because you know, if he had just said, okay, here's, I have million dollars go away, he would never have been impeached.

01:10:08.467 --> 01:10:15.230
So that's a perfect example of a guy's high and some skills, low and other skills.

01:10:15.230 --> 01:10:15.671
Yeah.

01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:18.726
So that's how most of us are.

01:10:18.726 --> 01:10:25.091
So you want to understand your spouse, your son.

01:10:25.091 --> 01:10:27.686
Most people have trouble with their kids.

01:10:27.686 --> 01:10:33.909
Analyze the kid against these 35 skill and then you know exactly what you're dealing with.

01:10:33.909 --> 01:10:38.145
Yeah, so I have friends, relatives, clients.

01:10:38.145 --> 01:10:41.012
You know, and I know where they are on certain scale.

01:10:41.012 --> 01:10:46.247
I'm not telling anybody, but I know, and so I know what to do.

01:10:46.247 --> 01:10:54.113
For example, I have a client, brilliant person, very successful, graduated from an elite university.

01:10:54.113 --> 01:11:03.489
This person has a lot of trouble making choices, so on the scale of choice, he's not so high.

01:11:03.489 --> 01:11:10.453
So if you expect this person to make a choice, you're going to be in for a long wait.

01:11:10.453 --> 01:11:18.908
So I know not to do that, you see, and so that facilitates the relationship.

01:11:20.359 --> 01:11:23.189
Yes, you can be compassionate around that with that person.

01:11:24.619 --> 01:11:26.404
Not only compassionate efficient.

01:11:26.404 --> 01:11:27.627
Yeah.

01:11:27.627 --> 01:11:28.751
Efficient.

01:11:28.751 --> 01:11:31.185
You know where to go and where not to go.

01:11:31.185 --> 01:11:32.329
Yeah, yeah.

01:11:33.020 --> 01:11:46.269
I have another person I deal with who very smart person, very skilled person has some kind of a weird communication disability, doesn't communicate well, doesn't communicate normal.

01:11:46.269 --> 01:11:53.332
So if I look at him on the scale of communication, I see all kinds of red flags.

01:11:53.332 --> 01:11:57.970
I have to work around this with this guy.

01:11:57.970 --> 01:12:08.207
So I know this, you know, and I don't expect him to communicate to me the way you're communicating with me, but I know he's good at his job.

01:12:08.207 --> 01:12:12.030
So you know, I sort of put up with that and I just let him do his job.

01:12:12.030 --> 01:12:15.069
So that's what this book is about.

01:12:15.069 --> 01:12:19.568
There's no judgment involved, it's just seeing what's there.

01:12:19.980 --> 01:12:23.371
This book is like botany or astronomy or zoology.

01:12:23.371 --> 01:12:25.500
It's the descriptive science.

01:12:25.500 --> 01:12:32.300
Okay, I absolutely know that these 35 skills are correct.

01:12:32.300 --> 01:12:44.796
I spent 35 years making sure, and so you might quibble with what word I use to describe it, for example, scale.

01:12:44.796 --> 01:12:45.279
The basic purpose.

01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:48.270
Level two is leader.

01:12:48.270 --> 01:12:51.500
The basic objective of a leader is conquest.

01:12:51.500 --> 01:12:54.074
Now, I pondered that for some time.

01:12:54.074 --> 01:12:59.500
Did I really want to use that word, but I couldn't fit another word that was better.

01:12:59.500 --> 01:13:11.667
So if you understand leaders like Abraham Lincoln Winston Churchill was a leader, alexander the Great was a leader what do they have in common Conquest.

01:13:11.667 --> 01:13:17.479
Churchill was determined to conquer the Nazis.

01:13:17.479 --> 01:13:26.500
If he were not, prime Minister, england would have surrendered because the Germans did pay the English.

01:13:26.500 --> 01:13:29.918
They would have easily made a peace treaty with them.

01:13:29.918 --> 01:13:31.734
That's what they tried to do for years.

01:13:31.734 --> 01:13:35.735
It's now no body in the scene.

01:13:35.735 --> 01:13:36.300
Churchill wouldn't have.

01:13:36.300 --> 01:13:37.149
He was going to conquer them.

01:13:37.149 --> 01:13:40.411
Same thing with Lincoln and the Confederacy.

01:13:40.411 --> 01:13:43.269
He was determined to conquer the.

01:13:43.288 --> 01:13:43.672
Nazis.

01:13:43.672 --> 01:13:47.268
He was determined to conquer the Nazis and he did.

01:13:47.268 --> 01:13:48.050
He conquered it.

01:13:48.050 --> 01:14:00.007
So people could say, well, conquest is not a good thing, or really, that's the question of whose ox is being gored, and this is such a thing as good conquest and a bad conquest.

01:14:00.007 --> 01:14:04.770
I mean, when Lincoln conquered the Confederacy, he freed the slaves.

01:14:04.770 --> 01:14:18.500
He used to do an emancipation proclamation in pursuit of that purpose, and then, after the war, he pushed through the 13th Amendment which made slavery unconstitutional.

01:14:18.500 --> 01:14:21.390
That was all Lincoln Okay.

01:14:21.390 --> 01:14:24.773
So wasn't that a good conquest?

01:14:26.219 --> 01:14:33.479
Because yeah, I can't say yes or no to that because, you know, to me those situations are so complex.

01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:34.645
You know I can see.

01:14:34.645 --> 01:14:36.756
Obviously that's an incredibly positive outcome.

01:14:36.756 --> 01:14:50.238
Yes, but I'm also thinking a lot of leaders are not in a position where conquest is on their agenda in the way that you've just described, unless you're using the word conquest in other ways as well.

01:14:50.238 --> 01:14:56.511
Presumably in the book you explain what you mean by some of these terms.

01:14:57.073 --> 01:15:09.677
Yes, so I could see how someone could say well, you should have called that and I probably wouldn't even argue with that because writing is an art.

01:15:09.677 --> 01:15:22.228
Yeah, exactly, so I had to go from science, which was discovering the phenomena, to engineering, which was creating the subject, to writing, which is an art.

01:15:22.228 --> 01:15:28.500
Yeah, so I had to have all of those areas of expertise in order to create this.

01:15:29.341 --> 01:15:36.479
So, I could see how somebody might say well, maybe you couldn't have called it this for that.

01:15:36.479 --> 01:15:44.795
And if you read it you can sort of see that sort of embedded into it, because I give synonyms in many places.

01:15:45.055 --> 01:15:47.500
Yes, yeah, so you're explaining what you mean by the word.

01:15:47.500 --> 01:15:55.293
I mean, you know I think we all know that words are not adequate to really describe everything about humanity.

01:15:55.293 --> 01:15:59.479
I mean, it's kind of, but it's a way to have a good go, isn't it?

01:15:59.900 --> 01:16:11.693
You know, we choose the best word we think fits the best I think the reason that people really dig this is that I did a pretty good job in choosing the right words, right?

01:16:11.693 --> 01:16:22.194
Yeah, I spent a lot of time really thinking about what is this phenomena and what word in English gets it the best.

01:16:22.194 --> 01:16:25.479
So I'll give you an example.

01:16:25.479 --> 01:16:29.911
This kind of sexuality, level two, is called take it or leave it.

01:16:29.911 --> 01:16:33.788
You can say what kind of a name is that for a level?

01:16:33.788 --> 01:16:42.552
Well, there are people not many, but there are people who get to a level about sexuality where they can take it or leave it.

01:16:42.552 --> 01:16:47.985
Yeah, if the girl says no to the guy, fine and she says yes, that's fine too.

01:16:47.985 --> 01:16:50.755
Most people never get there.

01:16:50.774 --> 01:16:51.820
No, I understand that, but.

01:16:52.121 --> 01:16:55.609
I looked at this phenomenon and I thought what am I going to call this?

01:16:55.609 --> 01:17:01.109
Well, I'll just call it, take it or leave it, because everybody knows what that means.

01:17:01.109 --> 01:17:03.600
Yeah, yeah, see.

01:17:03.600 --> 01:17:10.773
So you can say well, that's not a very graceful or eloquent name for a level, but I don't care about that.

01:17:10.773 --> 01:17:12.863
I care about helping people.

01:17:12.863 --> 01:17:13.645
Yeah.

01:17:13.947 --> 01:17:14.708
I think it's very good.

01:17:14.708 --> 01:17:17.025
I think that example is very good.

01:17:17.025 --> 01:17:52.872
I think the leadership one with Conquest that's one where I feel like I would want to read the chapter and understand more about what you're saying there, because although that word Conquest and I think you've correctly identified that as an example where someone might challenge that that word Conquest is quite emotive, so sometimes that's a really good thing because it challenges us to actually look into something and say what does that actually mean in terms of my understanding of what leadership is about, or being a leader?

01:17:52.872 --> 01:18:06.556
So I don't have any problem with you using words that someone might have a problem with, because you're not writing this book in order to get everyone's approval.

01:18:06.556 --> 01:18:14.911
You're writing, you've written it in order to help people and you've chosen the words that you feel serve that outcome the best.

01:18:14.911 --> 01:18:18.033
So that's what you've done.

01:18:18.033 --> 01:18:29.251
Yeah, so, before we carry on talking for another two hours which I mean honestly, I'm really enjoying this when do you want people to go if they want to find you, jim?

01:18:30.161 --> 01:18:47.460
Well, I invite your listeners to go to my website, which is septemixcom S-E-P-E-M-I-C-S, where you can see what many readers have said about it, what many journalists have written about it, what the reviews are.

01:18:47.460 --> 01:18:59.293
You could be sections of the book itself and you can listen to a pre-recorded introduction to Septemic, which explains this subject to a new person.

01:19:00.177 --> 01:19:01.903
Wonderful, and is that in your voice?

01:19:01.903 --> 01:19:05.292
Yes, fantastic, excellent.

01:19:05.292 --> 01:19:07.726
And can people buy the book on your website?

01:19:08.579 --> 01:19:13.152
Well, you can't buy it directly through the website, but it tells you where you can go to get it.

01:19:13.152 --> 01:19:18.832
You can, of course, get it at Amazon, barnes Nobles, really any place that books are sold.

01:19:18.832 --> 01:19:28.088
The book industry has changed Most books that they aren't even in print, they're just in a program, and when you buy it they print it up and send it to you.

01:19:28.088 --> 01:19:32.890
So it's kind of a different business from what most people used to think it was.

01:19:32.890 --> 01:19:39.500
You know, they don't have boxes anymore, so it's easy to find.

01:19:39.500 --> 01:19:48.746
If you just type the word Septemix into a search engine, you'll get hundreds of responses, including all the people who are selling the book.

01:19:48.746 --> 01:19:54.350
Great, and it exists in hardbound, soft-pound and e-book.

01:19:54.350 --> 01:20:04.030
Needless to say, the e-book is very inexpensive, so you can completely change your life for $10.

01:20:04.820 --> 01:20:05.384
Fantastic.

01:20:08.182 --> 01:20:18.269
Because I went out of my way to write this book in such a way that, once you have it, you don't need anything else in order to use it.

01:20:18.269 --> 01:20:26.167
You don't need to hire a facilitator, you don't need to join a church, you don't need to take classes, you don't need to spend money.

01:20:26.167 --> 01:20:35.292
The only thing you might need is a dictionary, but I would say that's every book in existence, absolutely, and everybody has a dictionary.

01:20:35.292 --> 01:20:36.479
Now the way in the market.

01:20:37.101 --> 01:20:38.167
Yeah, exactly.

01:20:39.882 --> 01:20:51.467
So you get the book and if you approach it the way I tell you to approach it, in the book there's very explicit directions how to use it you will get it.

01:20:53.391 --> 01:20:57.181
Some of it will be easier for you than other things, because people are different.

01:20:57.181 --> 01:21:07.635
Usually you have to realize that when a person is at or near the top of any scale, it's because he has insight in that area.

01:21:07.635 --> 01:21:15.252
When a person is at or near the bottom of any scale, it's because he lacks insight in that area.

01:21:15.252 --> 01:21:27.810
So if you are at or near the bottom of any scale, you're going to have some trouble with that because that's what you're at, or near the bottom, because you lack insight in that area.

01:21:27.810 --> 01:21:39.538
So to the extent that you use this, it develops insight because, remember I said, every time you find a correct level you have an insight.

01:21:39.538 --> 01:21:52.068
You say, ah, now I see what's going on with Kirtrude, so you become more insightful and that facilitates your usage of the book in future.

01:21:52.068 --> 01:21:55.149
And then you use it and you become more insightful.

01:21:55.149 --> 01:22:06.265
So it's like a snowball effect where you become more insightful and more insightful and more insightful and the more you use it, the easier it is to use because you're more insightful.

01:22:06.627 --> 01:22:07.289
Yeah, exactly.

01:22:07.289 --> 01:22:20.698
Well, this, of course, fits perfectly with the name of this very podcast Truth and Transcendence because my premise is that when we find what's true for us, that's when we have the opportunity to transcend, and you're saying an equivalent thing.

01:22:20.698 --> 01:22:35.661
I think you know that when you find where you feel that you are on a scale that gives you more insight, which then, actually, when we have an insight, we get more access to the genius within, don't we?

01:22:35.661 --> 01:22:37.997
We get more access to that that we have within us?

01:22:37.997 --> 01:22:53.354
So my final question, which I always ask everybody, is we've talked about a lot today and I'm very grateful to you for talking about Septemix so deeply and making it so understandable and everything else you've talked about.

01:22:53.354 --> 01:22:58.934
If you look back over this conversation, has there been a favourite part of our conversation today for you?

01:23:00.192 --> 01:23:02.458
Oh well, I don't really remember it that way.

01:23:02.458 --> 01:23:14.753
It's all occurring in Medius Rez, you know, and you know it's just coming out of this answering your questions, so you know that is a perfect answer.

01:23:15.596 --> 01:23:18.074
Yeah, because you know that's just.

01:23:18.074 --> 01:23:20.520
Sometimes that's the best conversation, isn't it?

01:23:20.520 --> 01:23:28.878
Where you just you get to the end of it and you think I hardly even know exactly what's been said, but I do know that we've had really had a conversation.

01:23:28.878 --> 01:23:31.537
So thank you so much, Jim.

01:23:31.537 --> 01:23:33.592
Is there anything else you'd like to say?

01:23:33.592 --> 01:23:39.394
Finally, that you would kick yourself if you don't say before we finish.

01:23:40.076 --> 01:23:47.220
Yes, every single person is at some level, on every scale.

01:23:47.220 --> 01:23:53.439
Now, you can ignore that data, but you do so at your own peril.

01:23:53.439 --> 01:23:56.475
It's much smarter to just use it.

01:23:56.475 --> 01:24:08.730
Yeah, figure out, where are you on the scale of attack, where are you on the scale of control, where are you on the scale of choice, and then you understand who you are with you and do the same thing for the people around you.

01:24:08.730 --> 01:24:19.140
So think of it this way when you take your car out on the road, there's signage which you are required to obey.

01:24:19.140 --> 01:24:27.994
There's a stop sign, no left turn, no U-turn, speed limit right Is all the signage.

01:24:29.050 --> 01:24:32.498
If you do not obey that signage, you're going to get in a lot of trouble.

01:24:32.498 --> 01:24:39.896
You could get a ticket, you could lose your license, you could wreck your car, you could kill somebody, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

01:24:39.896 --> 01:24:41.733
Bad things are going to happen.

01:24:41.733 --> 01:24:43.934
That is what this book is like.

01:24:43.934 --> 01:24:47.478
It gives you the signage for life.

01:24:47.478 --> 01:24:50.417
It tells you where the edge of the road is.

01:24:50.417 --> 01:25:00.442
It's very specific and so, because it gives you knowledge, it says nothing to do with how you feel.

01:25:00.442 --> 01:25:06.761
You are at a level, just as you are at a point on the surface of the earth.

01:25:06.761 --> 01:25:11.217
You know you get out in GPS unit gives you a readup.

01:25:11.217 --> 01:25:13.654
That's where you are, that's how this is.

01:25:13.654 --> 01:25:26.019
It's specific, it's precise and when you find it correctly, it's like use it for your own benefit, because your success is my reward.

01:25:27.224 --> 01:25:28.649
Beautiful, wonderful.

01:25:28.649 --> 01:25:36.684
Well, I think people will have got the message by now that it was yastic about your book and I think it's wonderful.

01:25:36.684 --> 01:25:38.396
And I'm going to say one final thing on it.

01:25:38.396 --> 01:25:45.563
I really like the logo you have for it, with the seven colored arrows.

01:25:46.170 --> 01:25:47.837
I just find that very beautiful.

01:25:48.850 --> 01:25:53.497
So, for me, that's always a part of an appeal on something, so I want to thank you for giving it that.

01:25:54.512 --> 01:25:56.479
Yes, it tells you all about Septimax.

01:25:56.479 --> 01:25:58.475
You have seven rays.

01:25:58.475 --> 01:26:05.115
Each of us points in a different direction, each of which is a different color, and between them they make a spectrum.

01:26:05.115 --> 01:26:08.957
That is exactly what these 35 scales are.

01:26:09.590 --> 01:26:11.296
Yeah, exactly Beautiful.

01:26:11.296 --> 01:26:14.458
Well, jim, thank you so much for this conversation.

01:26:14.458 --> 01:26:25.519
It's been absolutely fascinating for me and I really encourage the listeners to go out and check out the book, get the ebook, get the hardback, get the softback, whatever.

01:26:26.489 --> 01:26:37.118
And this episode is airing in the spring of 2024, which is a perfect time, as we've come out of the winter and we're really getting into our groove for the year.

01:26:37.118 --> 01:26:40.819
It's a perfect time for something like Septimax, isn't it?

01:26:40.819 --> 01:26:45.239
It's a perfect time to review where are we in the areas that matter to us?

01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:48.335
What do we want to do in our year?

01:26:48.335 --> 01:26:52.557
Thank you so much, jim, and have a fantastic day.

01:26:52.557 --> 01:26:54.871
You're welcome.