Ep 202: Peter Teuscher ~ Meditation, True Self & the Power of Beliefs

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Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by being Space with Catherine Llewellyn.

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Truth and Transcendence, episode 202, with Peter Toysha, who is on today to talk about I Am Not my Beliefs, and we'll say more about that in a moment.

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Peter is an entrepreneur, a corporate exec, a life coach, a business coach and a basketball coach, a leadership trainer and an author.

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His book Rethinking Happiness is available on Amazon and also on my shelf downstairs.

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You can find Peter at petertoyshercom and the spelling for that is P-E-T-E-R-T-E-U-S-C-H-E-Rcom and that will be in the show notes also.

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So this idea about I am not my beliefs I think anyone listening could possibly be rolling their eyes and saying, yes, I know, I've heard that multiple times, but I'm here to tell you that Peter's take on it is unique and really very interesting and quite, I think, liberating actually.

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So, peter, would you like to?

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I'm going to actually send you right back straight away into the question of can you cast your mind back and remember the first time that you realized that you are not your beliefs?

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Oh, it's that that's a difficult, you know.

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I think it's difficult because when I think back I feel like it was a there was a totally different version of me or it wasn't.

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You know, it just feels so foreign when I look back of my mental health situation that I was struggling with depression and starting to go to therapy.

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But I think the revelation for me was when I had one of my therapists recommended a meditation teacher and this meditation, this was my first sort of real experience with learning to meditate, learning the process, and I think when I went through that I realized that there was this observer in me, or I was this observer and I could observe my thoughts and I could observe, you know, the beliefs that they, you know they sometimes led to and so on.

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And I think that process of finding distance between sort of who I was on a deeper level and all this other stuff that was going on through my mind, that was sort of the first step in recognizing ah, you know, there's something deeper there.

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And as I was going through that, I was also reading multiple teachers, philosophers and so on, self-help gurus and the story of Eckhart Tolle, where he talked about when he first kind of had this when he was feeling depressed and anxious and all of a sudden he had this notion that I can't live with myself any longer.

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And then he asked himself the question well, you know, who is this myself that I can't live with?

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And finding that separation.

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So I think, when I because that separation is between sort of this authentic or this observer part of you and this character that you've built up, with all the beliefs and the chronic ways of thinking that you have.

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So I think that was the process when I had those inputs and I went and had that meditation, that first real deep meditation experience.

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I think that's where it really hit home for me.

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Wow, and what was that like?

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I mean, it's easy when we look back at things to remember it as oh, I did the meditation and then I had this insight.

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Was it an enjoyable experience?

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Was it a difficult experience?

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Was it confusing?

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What was it like?

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It was this like there's a whole new universe that's opened up for me, kind of an experience.

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That's opened up for me kind of an experience.

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Naturally, I don't think, you know, there are people that maybe suddenly change their whole lives and they make all these changes and they never go back.

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For me it was up and down, it was a bit of a roller coaster.

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I kept learning things, having, you know, two steps forward, one step back.

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So but I think this I was stuck in this paradigm for so long, in this way of thinking about myself and the world and my place in it that having this new information made me realize there's so much that I've just been overlooking, and I think that was exciting, a little scary at the time and you know it was a real mix of emotions because I was thinking, oh, I just wasted so much of my life up till now because I didn't know this stuff, but at the same time going, wow, there's just so much more potential I have now that I recognize this sort of truth about myself and about life.

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Yeah, thank you.

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I love that description, that sort of bouncing back and forth between wow, this is great, and then, oh God, I've just gone backwards again.

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Yeah.

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And the excitement and the other, whatever all the other feelings that go with it.

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Very powerful.

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What kind of meditation were you actually doing?

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Good question.

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I don't even know what he called it.

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He was an Indian gentleman who was living in Vancouver at the time and I had to.

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It was quite strict in that he said well, there's, you know, you need to be.

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I was already.

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I had already stopped eating meat.

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So he said you know, you should be vegetarian and you shouldn't eat any, you shouldn't drink any alcohol.

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The alcohol part was difficult because my brother and I we had a small craft brewery, so you can't be in the beer business and abstain completely.

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But I did.

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I kind of abstained for a while, um and uh.

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And then he had these mantras that he uh taught me where, um, you know it was.

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It was meant to be just between me and him, so it could have been a form of transcendental meditation, because I know they work with uh, with mantras, um.

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But you know, during that period I I tried to you know that who had a sort of spiritual take or a religious take were just in denial of their own mortality.

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And it was such a limiting view of life.

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Because he gave me this, I think, one of the most powerful things he left me with besides, the sort of first understanding of how meditation can help your life.

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But he said understanding of how meditation can help your life.

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But he said, you know, imagine, the universe is this ocean of energy and each of us are a drop in that ocean and the ocean is God.

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And I just it really took me aback because I said you can think about God that way.

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I thought it was just a gray-haired old man on a throne, you know, judging us.

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You know, obviously that was a very negative take that I had and so I thought, wow, there's so many different ways to be looking at life and reality and spirituality.

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And I came to realize that that sort of spiritual part of me was neglected and, you know, just overlooked for a long time.

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So yeah, that was a so yeah, that just expanded my mind in many ways and the possibilities that that could lead to.

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How lovely.

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That sounds like a beautiful experience.

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It also sounds like you were quite compassionately and skillfully held in your journey by this indian gentleman.

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Would you say that was true?

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yeah, um, yeah, it was.

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Uh, you know he didn't charge me anything for it.

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He spent his time with me, um, and all I needed to do was fulfill his requirements and you know you asked me earlier about what.

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You know, what was that like for me?

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Um, I was committed to it, for you know, for the three months that I spent with him, but then it was like reality was drawing me, or my perceived reality was pulling me back in and well, I can't, I can't stop drinking alcohol because it's, you know, it's part of my social and business, uh, environment, and and I and I also started feeling, ah, there's a real, really, because he, he was asking me about, you know, did you, did you see a vision of the master?

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Like, because he, you know it was, he had a very specific goal sometimes in mind, and I've since had other meditation teachers that are like, there is no goal to meditation.

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You know, you just get into the state and you let it happen to you.

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But so there were some religious elements that, at least from my perception, and that kind of put me off, but he gave me so much in that short time we spent together.

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The sad thing is I don't even remember his name.

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You know, it was just such a we didn't really use names.

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We were in this kind of mode of self-discovery where he was guiding me to this mode of self-discovery, and I think he was also in the process of passing on what he'd learned from his sort of masters that taught him, and that's what I aim to do as well, you know, through these conversations and through the work that I do.

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Yeah, amazing.

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That is such a wonderful, a beautiful thing to remember.

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I think that sometimes we've had these people in our lives who've really made an enormous contribution and they're just gone and we may not remember their name and we may not know if they're still alive or where they are now, but they made that important contribution and they haven't stuck around and made sure that they were sort of lauded for it.

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You know, they've just gone, okay, were sort of lauded for it.

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They've just gone, okay, this piece of the journey is complete, bless you and off.

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They've gone, and we carry on.

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And then we do that for other people, don't we?

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Sometimes I've had occasions where I'm in touch with someone who I haven't talked to for years and years and they said someone who I haven't talked to for years and years, and they said, catherine, that thing you said 10 years ago or that piece of training you gave me 20 years ago changed my life.

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And I'm like, I'm delighted, I'm thinking I can't, what on earth did we do?

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And I'm sure you have stories like that as well.

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I do, and I just think you know just that one person who reminds you of a way that you impacted their life makes it all worthwhile.

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And because I've received the same from so many people in brief moments, brief encounters, people who have affected my life in a positive way, I wish I could go back to some of them, because I don't have contact with them anymore, to say, wow, you know, these things you did or this interaction with you really affected my life in a positive way.

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But I think the way to say thank you is to continue to pass that forward, and so, yeah, that's what makes me so passionate about doing this kind of work, and I'm sure you feel the same way.

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Absolutely right.

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Yes, it's all part of collective consciousness, isn't it?

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Every, every piece, every consciousness shift contributes to the whole.

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Yes, that's exactly the way I see it.

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Every, everything that we contribute so even my own evolution, my own, you know, relationship with myself and improving myself, I think is a contribution to the whole, and that's why it's so important.

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And that's why I also feel very strongly about helping people experience more happiness in their life, more joy, because not only do I think that people who are happy people tend to be better neighbors, partners, contributors to society, I also think that they will raise other people up along with them.

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So I think I have a vested interest in helping as many people achieve that in their lives.

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Yeah, yeah, so we're talking about I am, not my beliefs in their lives.

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Yeah, yeah, so we're talking about I am not my beliefs, so if I'm, if and you've obviously been working with these ideas for some years now and you've written your book, where you've explored it from a number of different angles, which is really fascinating so if someone came to you and said, okay, if I'm not my beliefs, then what am I?

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Then, if I'm not my beliefs, then what am?

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I then.

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How do you respond to that?

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Yeah Well, I'd first ask well, what benefit is there for you to see yourself so tied to your beliefs, to be so identified with what?

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Because beliefs tend to be these.

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You know, these concepts we've put together that you know.

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If it were a fact, if it was a knowing right, then it would be different than just our belief, and that's why we refer to it as a belief.

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We need to have some degree of faith in it.

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So what you're saying is you're identified with these things that you can't know for certain, uh, and you, you may be wrong about, they may be influenced by your fears, your biases and so on.

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So the first question is you know, does it benefit you, um?

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And so, by all means, if, uh, you're happy with you, who you are, you feel very fulfilled, you're, you're, uh, you know, you feel completely like you've arrived in in life, which, you know, I don't, I don't believe you you ever really arrive.

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But if you, if you have, feel that strongly about yourself, well then that's great.

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Stick with the beliefs that you have and that identity that that comes of that um.

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But if there are areas where you're unhappy with, if there's change that you feel needs to be made, then there's clearly the beliefs that you have aren't supporting you in that area, and so I think when you recognize that you're not your beliefs, that's the liberating part, because you know you can change them.

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The way I'm genetically, or the way that I've been conditioned to be, feels sometimes you know the idea of changing that feels very overwhelming or insurmountable, and so when you can get that distance or that separation, I think that becomes very liberating for people who want to make a change in their lives.

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Fantastic.

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Okay, so you're not saying everybody, please explore the fact that you're not your beliefs that everybody do.

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That You're saying if you feel like you want to make a change or if you feel like things are not really the way you want them, then this is a useful thing to explore.

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I think the reason we have a lot of conflicts, ideologically or politically people become so identified with these beliefs and they become unwilling to hear other perspectives and so on, because it threatens my identity, because this is who I am, and I think that leads us to stagnation.

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I think that leads us to stagnation.

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It leads us to a lack of curiosity about the world and an inability to change and grow, and so those are the drawbacks.

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And so I would ask someone are those drawbacks worth it for you?

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And there's no point in your life, no matter if you're 90 years old or you're 19 years old, there's no point where you can't change.

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It's this constant process, and I think the older we get, the more we kind of become entrenched, or maybe just the habits become so internalized that we don't feel like we can change and evolve.

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And my first wife once said to me you know you've been working on yourself since I've known you with this sort of undertone of when are you going to be finished?

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And my sense is I'll never be finished.

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You know it'll be always this ongoing thing.

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And I think if we approach life that way with you know I'm this piece of art that's never going to be complete, then I think that's a much healthier way to approach it and that's the way I like to approach helping people evolve their beliefs to support them in a stronger way Fantastic.

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Okay.

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So you're on this kind of ever-expanding path that you're happy with.

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By the sounds of it, you seem to enjoy it, right, I do and you're available for people who would like to know more about that and explore that, because they feel there's scope for growth, scope for change or improvement.

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Yeah, I think, when it comes down to it, when anyone comes to me for coaching and they want to make a change and at the end of the day, that's why people come for coaching they either want some clarity in their life or they want to make a change.

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And, at the end of the day, that's why people come for coaching they either want some clarity in their life or they want to initiate some change.

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And so when we look at an area and I do this systemically I take a very holistic approach, so there's never just one cause and effect that's going to do everything.

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There are some levers that you pull that have a stronger effect than others, but, at the end of the day, these results that you're getting come from these strategies that you're.

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You know the behaviors and the choices you're making, and those strategies tend to stem from some belief, whether it be some strong core belief or some belief that's evolved over time.

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And so that's why I believe that when you you know, when you can go back to that kind of belief that is that has led to the strategy that you're executing in life, when you can change that, you can change the strategy and you can change the outcomes.

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And so when you find that separate, when you recognize, okay, I'm not my beliefs, therefore I can change them.

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And then the things I want to change in my life begin with changing those beliefs, and that's the kind of process that I like to take people through.

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Fantastic and so, um, how do you do that?

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I mean, obviously, if someone wants to know how you really do that, they have to experience the work with you.

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But if, let's say, another practitioner said to you okay, peter, have you got a particular kind of approach or strategy around the way you enter into those sorts of pieces of work with clients?

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What might you say about that?

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Well, I do.

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I really look at three areas where I find beliefs predominantly come from.

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So I look at experience as a source of our beliefs.

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So we'll have an experience and it'll create a certain perspective on the world and that will then anchor a belief with us.

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It will be our environment, it'll be the people who have surrounded us, you know, during various periods of our life.

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It can be the media that we're immersed in, it can be the culture that we're immersed in.

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So, in that sense, our environment.

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And then the third thing I look at is repetitive thought, so the things we tend to think over and over develop into beliefs that we then hang on to.

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So I look at those three areas in order to help people change their beliefs.

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So one example would be if you've had a bad experience or, let's say, you have a fear a fear of public speaking is one example I like to use so you would have a new experience, so you would start speaking in front of a small group, then a larger group, and then you would practice and you would become better at it until you become very confident.

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You overcome that fear of public speaking.

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That's a very simple way of explaining it, but there's.

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There are any number of experiences that you could have had that you just need to have a new experience.

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I had a had a coaching client that came to me once and and she said you know, this always happens to me.

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And then we went back and and looked at what the last time was that it happened and when did it happen before that.

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And then it turned out it happened two times in her whole life.

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But she'd come to this conclusion that it always happens to her.

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And so when we look at the origin of our beliefs, it can really really help us in terms of whether it's experience, whether it's just something that we've been influenced to believe, or whether it's something we continue to think about in a negative way that establishes a negative belief for us.

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And yeah, those are the areas I cover.

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I love that.

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So that's very sort of non-intrusive in a way, in the way you've described it.

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It's almost collegiate in the way you describe it way, in the way you've described it.

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It's almost collegiate in the way you describe it.

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Well, it is.

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See, the great thing about coaching is you don't need to know anything specific about a person's situation in business.

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I don't need to understand someone's business environment, because I'm just taking the information that's coming and and, and I'm accompanying that person on that journey.

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And it's about asking the right questions, because my one of my part of my coaching philosophy is everyone has the answers within them, so it's just, it's just, it's my job to help them discover those.

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I, I'm going on that journey with them to help discover those answers they already have within them because they either haven't thought of the right questions or they haven't been willing to ask the right questions.

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And so that's the process and that's the work that you do when you're self-reflecting or when you're getting someone to help you in that process of self-reflection and raising your awareness, because one of my mottos in coaching is awareness allows change.

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And we have all these things that are below the surface.

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You bring them up, you have a look at them, especially where the fears are concerned, because with fears, fears drive a lot of our negative beliefs and a lot of times the fear lingers in the background or in our periphery, and then, when we look at it, it becomes much smaller and less overwhelming.

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Yeah, I wonder because, you know, a few years ago we had a few years of um the covid situation and a lot of people experienced a great deal of fear during that period of time.

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Yeah, have you noticed effects of that fear manifesting in your clients, in your work with them?

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I have, um, people struggled, especially people who were um freelance, who weren't, uh, employed, or people who lost their job or their livelihood, um, and then they were, um, there were issues around people more concerned with their on a positive note people, you know, becoming more aware of their health, but on, on a negative side, being very fear-driven.

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I don't think fear really brings us to make good choices in life or to respond in a positive way.

00:23:30.494 --> 00:23:45.015
What it comes down to is not the fear itself, but, you know, the fear triggers a lot of emotional responses in us and and and from there, we we may not make the best decisions.

00:23:45.015 --> 00:23:51.451
So people will become concerned about their um, you know, the, the development of their children and so on.

00:23:51.451 --> 00:24:08.791
So there's a wide range of things that have come out of the whole period, um, uh, of covid, but I I find what's also come out of it is is, um this, this disconnection we've learned, we've become comfortable being sort of separate from each other, um and uh.

00:24:08.791 --> 00:24:11.325
You know, the great thing is we're able to communicate this way.

00:24:11.345 --> 00:24:24.461
Through the north america, you know, deaths of despair at new all-time highs, and there are statistics where people are acknowledging that they don't have one friend that they could name.

00:24:24.461 --> 00:24:34.664
When you start having these kind of disconnections, then you get this sense of I'm all alone and that lonely sense.

00:24:34.664 --> 00:24:37.990
Imagine how much fear that brings with it, right?

00:24:37.990 --> 00:24:50.183
So so those, I guess, are just a few examples of some of the the the sort of pervasive fears that seem to be sort of out there right now in the consciousness right, okay, that's interesting.

00:24:50.223 --> 00:25:00.028
So the so, the um, the sort of knock-on consequential fears are more about isolation than about health.

00:25:00.348 --> 00:25:02.933
I think it it's security, it's health and it's isolation.

00:25:02.933 --> 00:25:08.086
I think all three of them and you know it's caused people.

00:25:08.086 --> 00:25:11.006
I think when people had a lot of time off, they had a lot of time to reflect.

00:25:11.006 --> 00:25:19.530
That can be a very good thing, but it can also lead people to ruminate and really, you know, escalate their fears to a new level.

00:25:20.141 --> 00:25:22.039
Yeah, or as we in the UK call, wallow.

00:25:23.508 --> 00:25:25.519
Yes, wallow in our misery, yeah.

00:25:26.183 --> 00:25:28.032
That's right, which I've practiced.

00:25:28.032 --> 00:25:29.240
I'm quite good at it now.

00:25:30.805 --> 00:25:31.326
I am too.

00:25:31.326 --> 00:25:33.373
I mean I still have my moments, you know.

00:25:33.373 --> 00:25:41.310
The good thing is, I'm aware of the inner narrator that's trying to tell me this story and that comes back to you.

00:25:41.310 --> 00:25:44.645
Know, you're not your thoughts, you're not your beliefs, you're more than that.

00:25:44.645 --> 00:25:48.589
But even when you know, it's not always easy, right?

00:25:48.720 --> 00:26:22.080
Yeah, absolutely right, and I think the reason I was inspired to ask that question is because we're going along through life and our clients have got individual things that have happened to them, but every now and again there's some sort of very specific global common experience that happens, and then there's a sort of knock-on collective effect of that, which, of course, plays out in individual lives in different ways lives in different ways.

00:26:22.101 --> 00:26:26.810
Yeah, I found it very interesting, you know since we're on the topic of COVID how in the beginning people were brought together.

00:26:26.810 --> 00:26:56.001
People were helping each other and supporting each other and then, as it wore on, there was people kind of were divided into groups, or they were mistrustrustful, or they were just very worried about their own health and safety just themselves or their immediate family and so you saw that over a prolonged period it really weighed on people and caused them to sink deeper into that fear state.

00:26:56.001 --> 00:26:57.786
That was my observation, anyway.

00:26:58.146 --> 00:27:01.133
Right, and do you think that was because of how long it went on?

00:27:03.083 --> 00:27:24.288
yeah, and I think from the sort of great let's band together and help each other to a much more sort of survival oriented yeah, I think that you know there's only so much you can we have such access to information now and there's only so much bad news you can hear before you get swept up in it yourself.

00:27:24.288 --> 00:27:32.028
And so, uh, I think there, I think it was a lot of the media that we had, but, um, it was just the when is this going to end?

00:27:32.028 --> 00:27:33.070
People had fatigue.

00:27:33.070 --> 00:27:34.273
I, I think you can.

00:27:34.273 --> 00:27:39.250
It's kind of when you uh, when you're just running on adrenaline, you know you can do that for a while.

00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:47.683
Um, and then you, you know you, then you, you, you wear out, or you, uh, you, you collapse at some point and I think, emotionally, the same thing happened.

00:27:47.683 --> 00:27:56.118
You know there was this okay, we're going to get through this, we're going to, but then over time, you can only ride that wave for so long yeah, I actually.

00:27:56.298 --> 00:28:04.454
Well, I remember at one point finding myself saying that, you know, the fear response in a human being is designed to be temporary.

00:28:04.454 --> 00:28:09.892
It's designed to be temporary, because it's designed to be a message that tells that you might be in danger.

00:28:09.892 --> 00:28:12.468
You then take an action and the fear is gone.

00:28:12.468 --> 00:28:16.210
You're not supposed to remain in fear for an extended period.

00:28:16.210 --> 00:28:17.404
We're not designed for that.

00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:56.923
No, exactly, and I think where that became very, I went, I was in, I was in Africa and I, um, I had the fortune of, uh, you know, I was there uh, for for work and I, and then I had the opportunity to take a few days and and get into a go to the um, one of the wildlife reserves, and on the, on the trip, the, the guide had said you know, there were these antelope, and he said, you know, the interesting thing is, if there's a threat of a lion, or maybe the lion attacks and kills one of the herd, within 10 minutes maximum they'll be back to grazing like nothing ever happened, right?

00:28:56.923 --> 00:29:00.732
But then you think about if that had happened to a group of people.

00:29:00.732 --> 00:29:06.323
We'd be talking about it for months, years, a lifetime, and we'd be, even if nothing happened to anyone.

00:29:06.323 --> 00:29:11.904
We'd be going oh, we had such a close call and you know and I still haven't gotten over that I have nightmares about it.

00:29:11.924 --> 00:29:22.063
You know, that's the way that fear lingers in us and we're great at projecting into the future and having our imagination, but we just use it for the wrong reasons, right?

00:29:22.063 --> 00:29:23.987
Or for the wrong applications.

00:29:23.987 --> 00:29:26.112
And I think if we could only get back to.

00:29:26.112 --> 00:29:36.488
You know, getting away from that, letting our thoughts just get out of control in the direction of fear, we'd be far better off, and I like the way.

00:29:36.488 --> 00:29:39.647
You know I'm a big fan of Simon Siddick when it comes to leadership and so on, and he talks about.

00:29:39.647 --> 00:29:41.961
You know I'm a big fan of Simon Siddick when it comes to leadership and so on, and he talks about.

00:29:41.961 --> 00:29:51.430
You know, in the workplace we're under the stress and pressure and we have this constant drip, drip, drip of cortisol, and you know cortisol is meant to wake us up in the morning and it's meant to.

00:29:51.430 --> 00:29:54.140
You know it has its helpful functions.

00:29:54.140 --> 00:30:05.290
But certainly having this regular flow of cortisol through the fear and stress and anxiety that we're exposed to is not a healthy thing, and I think we need to be more aware of that.

00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:07.263
I think that's very nicely said.

00:30:07.304 --> 00:30:28.964
I haven't heard someone say it exactly in that way, because you're absolutely right, there is a kind of a because I used to spend a lot of time in corporate environments and I do remember that at the end of a day people would be more tired than you might think reasonable, given what they've done is sat on a chair all day working on a computer.

00:30:28.984 --> 00:30:38.132
But you're right, there is that sort of vibe and I think some leaders are aware of that and attempt to sort of do something about it.

00:30:38.132 --> 00:31:05.832
That actually leads me to another question I wanted to ask you, you know, because I'm very interested in, particularly over the last few years, I feel like leadership's been, you know, more important than ever, whether it's people taking leadership responsibility in their own lives individually or whether it's people trying to be good leaders on behalf of others, trying to be part of the solution.

00:31:05.832 --> 00:31:24.285
And some of those people that gravitate to listening to this podcast actually some of the people listening find this an interesting thing because it helps them to explore their inner world, if you like, and be more aware and conscious.

00:31:24.285 --> 00:31:27.295
So some of them might be listening right now as we're speaking.

00:31:27.295 --> 00:31:44.203
So is there something you'd like to say to leaders in particular, whether that's formal leaders or people who are simply leaders in their own lives, to help them really engage in a useful way with this notion of not being our beliefs.

00:31:46.651 --> 00:32:12.088
Yeah, I think the first thing to do is define for yourself what it means to be a leader and what it means to lead, because I come across so many beliefs about that whole concept leadership They'll use those terms synonymously and you know, you don't manage people.

00:32:12.088 --> 00:32:17.863
You manage processes, situations, but you don't manage people.

00:32:17.863 --> 00:32:18.605
You lead people.

00:32:18.605 --> 00:32:23.457
And that's actually something that I heard Seth Godin say.

00:32:23.457 --> 00:32:30.234
You know, he's the famous marketer from New York there, and I actually heard him speak at an event I was coaching at.

00:32:30.715 --> 00:32:37.251
But, um, but I think that's such an important thing to define for yourself, uh, what it means to be a leader.

00:32:37.251 --> 00:32:40.459
What do you believe that it means to to lead people?

00:32:40.459 --> 00:32:47.617
And, uh, and I think, uh, you, you know, it's not some authority that you're, that's bestowed upon you, right?

00:32:47.617 --> 00:33:21.067
Because I find the people that emerge as leaders in organizations, those are the people that they have an understanding and empathy for others, right, and they can then inspire people to follow them to whatever goal that they're trying to achieve, Whereas people that are following this checklist and using the authority bestowed upon them and thinking that this means you have to follow me, that is a belief and a philosophy that's going to not get you, it's not going to lead you to be a successful leader.

00:33:21.067 --> 00:33:33.090
So I think when you have a clear belief what it means to be a leader and understand what characteristic that includes, that's just such a first important step.

00:33:34.272 --> 00:33:34.874
I love that.

00:33:34.874 --> 00:33:35.816
That's really good.

00:33:35.816 --> 00:33:42.733
I didn't expect you to say that, but actually now you've said it, of course it was what you were going to say.

00:33:42.733 --> 00:33:51.010
Again, you're taking the attention off the external what's the strategy, what's the behavior?

00:33:51.010 --> 00:33:53.740
And back into what's behind that.

00:33:53.740 --> 00:33:56.498
What's the belief about what a good leader is?

00:33:56.498 --> 00:34:00.759
And am I doing that and actually do I really believe that belief?

00:34:02.009 --> 00:34:05.200
Yeah, it comes back to this very stoic way of looking at things.

00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:11.759
I mean, there's been a number of ancient philosophers that believed in this, but you cannot control the outside world.

00:34:11.759 --> 00:34:12.914
You can't control people.

00:34:12.914 --> 00:34:24.438
You can certainly have an influence, but at the end of the day, what you have control over is yourself, and when you look within, you can control your, your beliefs, if you want to.

00:34:24.438 --> 00:34:26.896
You can control what you give your attention to.

00:34:26.896 --> 00:34:35.213
People will say, oh, meditation means letting go of your thoughts.

00:34:35.213 --> 00:34:37.380
It's like no, those thoughts will come, but you can control what you give your attention to.

00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:39.327
And so when you do that inner work, you will be a better leader.

00:34:39.327 --> 00:34:40.934
And I think that's the thing you know.

00:34:40.934 --> 00:34:50.902
On the airplane we talk about, you know, in the case of loss of cabin pressure, first you know help yourself and then assist children and those around you.

00:34:50.902 --> 00:34:53.137
And I think, as a leader, you need to do the same.

00:34:53.137 --> 00:35:00.123
You need to make sure that you are in a state and in a condition that you can lead well right.

00:35:00.851 --> 00:35:09.681
These people who think they're leading by example because they work nonstop until they're going to you know they're going to keel over or have a burnout or something.

00:35:09.681 --> 00:35:12.137
Those aren't the best leaders either.

00:35:12.137 --> 00:35:14.797
Like when people say you know a great.

00:35:14.797 --> 00:35:31.610
They give Elon Musk as this great example of leadership and I think you know, maybe as an engineer or whatever, but in terms of leading people, putting your desk in the middle of a factory floor and showing that you can work 80 hours a week, I don't think that, um, that's necessary.

00:35:31.610 --> 00:35:43.210
Maybe he can do it and he's, maybe he's one of the very few people who can perform at that level, but I I don't think that is necessarily the picture, uh, of, uh, the best possible leader right.

00:35:44.532 --> 00:35:50.260
Oh, and equally, there's the other example, which is that the leader is the person in the gilded room on the eighth floor.

00:35:50.260 --> 00:36:10.001
I was introduced to the chairman, or the CEO of one of the big banks in the UK, who was my client at the time, reported to this guy and this guy was looking for quote for pitches, tenders for some work.

00:36:10.001 --> 00:36:17.713
And I'd not been up to this floor before and I remember I walked up.

00:36:17.713 --> 00:36:20.277
The whole building up to there was fairly utilitarian.

00:36:20.277 --> 00:36:23.541
There was quite a lot of wood because it was an old building, but it was quite.

00:36:23.541 --> 00:36:36.992
I went up to this floor, got out of the special lift that only went to that floor and I thought, hey, these hallways have got beautiful rugs.

00:36:36.992 --> 00:36:38.215
That's different from the rest of the building.

00:36:38.215 --> 00:36:42.581
And I went into this guy's office and it was like walking into a stately home room.

00:36:42.581 --> 00:37:01.340
There was sculpted things on the ceiling, those architrave, there was beautiful chandelier thing, there was gorgeous rugs, fabulous inlaid desk and I was shocked, I was literally shocked at the ostentation of it.

00:37:01.541 --> 00:37:43.563
You know the I am the boss and this is the manifestation, and I immediately knew there was not going to be a rapport between me and this guy and there wasn't a rapport no, exactly, and it's these and both, both extremes like whether you want to be, um, you know you have a different role when you're a leader, uh, so if you're uncomfortable with that and you would still just want to be one of the group, um, I see it in sports as well, where people you'll see, a certain player, will emerge as the leader of the group, but not because they are necessarily better than anybody else or more skilled.

00:37:43.563 --> 00:37:50.416
They have a certain mindset that inspires people to follow them and believe in them, right.

00:37:50.416 --> 00:38:08.047
And so, when it comes to good leadership, you look at, you know, that person sort of in the that creates separation through, you know, ostentatious environment or through, kind of an isolated environment where you know they don't give access to you.

00:38:08.047 --> 00:38:17.407
That doesn't inspire any kind of trust and that doesn't inspire any kind of sense of you know that that person understands what I'm going through, right?

00:38:17.407 --> 00:38:36.471
And so I think that that's when we look at at teams and the things that cause dysfunction in teams, trust is that very base layer, because if you don't have trust and this is a model from Patrick Lincioneione that you probably know of, but you know without that trust, then you, you, you have an uh, a fear of conflict.

00:38:36.490 --> 00:38:54.143
So people aren't willing to open, openly discuss their fears, their concerns, their, their um, their, their inadequacies, and and so that leads that spirals into a whole bunch of things that causes separation, disconnection, dysfunction, and those are the things you want to avoid when you're trying to be a leader.

00:38:54.143 --> 00:38:59.523
You're trying to get a sense of community, bring people together, give them a vision to work towards.

00:38:59.523 --> 00:39:08.936
And look, did anyone in the organization know what the guy in the office's vision was for you know where he wanted to take the organization?

00:39:08.936 --> 00:39:09.900
Right, that that's.

00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:13.940
That's such a fundamental part of leadership yeah, absolutely right.

00:39:14.822 --> 00:39:20.800
And and very, very telling, very telling, because, of course, people have got to want to explore this sort of thing, don't they?

00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:22.632
They've got to be ready to do it.

00:39:22.632 --> 00:39:26.159
Yeah, um, because otherwise there's no point.

00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:31.070
Yeah and and there are different leaders for different situations.

00:39:31.070 --> 00:39:39.364
I wasn't trying to be negative about Elon Musk, because certainly he's a very successful guy and there's people who really believe in him.

00:39:39.364 --> 00:39:53.889
But also when you hear about someone like Steve Jobs, who built Apple apparently he was a very difficult guy to work with but he clearly created a vision that inspired people.

00:39:53.889 --> 00:39:57.561
So there are different ways to go about it and some are through your.

00:39:57.561 --> 00:40:05.489
I really believe in the interpersonal skills and good communication and those kind of things to become a strong leader.

00:40:05.489 --> 00:40:15.543
But the ability to communicate a clear vision that people are drawn into also will encourage people to lead you.

00:40:15.543 --> 00:40:18.797
But people will follow leaders for all the wrong reasons.

00:40:18.797 --> 00:40:23.793
We've had dictators, we've had cult leaders, we've had all kinds of people that people.

00:40:23.793 --> 00:40:29.565
They're really good at this one part of engaging people, but it's for the wrong reasons and the wrong motivations.

00:40:29.565 --> 00:40:33.634
Engaging people but it's for the wrong reasons and the wrong motivations.

00:40:33.653 --> 00:40:37.242
So, um, so, so yeah, I think that's why I go back to what kind of a leader do you want to be and what are your?

00:40:37.242 --> 00:40:53.275
One of the first things that I work on with people is their is their core values, to get really clear and identify with that, because that's what creates a lot of unhappiness in the workplace or in people's personal lives is they're doing things, or they're doing work to earn money.

00:40:53.275 --> 00:41:00.177
In that process, they're having to do things that are in conflict with their core values, and when you're in conflict with your values, you're going to be unhappy.

00:41:00.177 --> 00:41:09.237
It's this great feedback loop that keeps telling you that the way you're living your life, there's something about it that's just not in alignment with what's really important to you.

00:41:09.237 --> 00:41:11.822
And those things are important for leaders.

00:41:11.822 --> 00:41:16.577
That's important for people just in their everyday lives.

00:41:17.217 --> 00:41:33.592
Yeah, wow, peter, this is fascinating and I could quite happily keep talking to you for hours on end and I just really want to remind everybody please do get Peter's book Rethinking Happiness, because we're just scraping the surface here today in our conversation.

00:41:34.594 --> 00:41:52.018
I really like the way that you're talking about somebody, rather than just trying to change what they're doing or change their approach, to look within at what they actually believe and do they really believe, what they think they believe and what really matters to them.

00:41:52.018 --> 00:42:00.980
And it's also very refreshing the way you're not in any way seeming to try to get people to sort of cathart out all the pain.

00:42:00.980 --> 00:42:22.262
I imagine if that comes up, it comes up, but your approach doesn't sound like it's predicated on that, and I think that's refreshing because for some people that's what they need and for a lot of people it's not what they need necessarily, and particularly in the therapeutic world or the coaching world, that can be what people are thinking needs to happen.

00:42:22.262 --> 00:42:32.938
You know that kind of breaking down, but you're describing a much more contemplative, reflective approach, which I think is very valuable.

00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:34.442
Well, thank you.

00:42:34.442 --> 00:42:37.219
I think it's also good to be pragmatic.

00:42:37.219 --> 00:42:42.179
If you want to get to solutions, it's good to be pragmatic, and I think people do get lost in that.

00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:43.773
There's just a little bit further.

00:42:43.773 --> 00:42:54.393
I could dig into the emotional sort of source of this issue or whatever, um sort of uh source of this uh issue or whatever.

00:42:54.393 --> 00:42:55.835
And you can, you can, um, you can work through some issues.

00:42:55.835 --> 00:42:57.119
You can kind of work them to death.

00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:05.911
Uh, you know, sometimes you'll, you'll, uh, when you reflect on them and you recognize, and you, um, and you, you find separation from them.

00:43:05.911 --> 00:43:07.115
That's enough, you know you.

00:43:07.115 --> 00:43:09.445
You don't always need to dig deeper and deeper.

00:43:10.367 --> 00:43:16.202
And I think the other thing about beliefs is certainly there sometimes when it's good to ask is that true?

00:43:16.202 --> 00:43:27.119
Because those negative beliefs that we have about ourselves have developed through perceptions that we had when we weren't maybe seeing the whole picture or seeing the world clearly.

00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:39.713
But then, on another perspective, if there's a belief that's helpful for you, then just ask yourself does it have utilities, does it serve a purpose, right?

00:43:39.713 --> 00:43:47.559
So I think that's also a really important thing to think about when it comes to your beliefs, because we can't necessarily prove that they're true or not true.

00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.293
That's why they're beliefs, that's why we have faith in them.

00:43:50.293 --> 00:43:54.784
But if you can't prove it one way or another, then ask yourself is it serving me?

00:43:54.784 --> 00:43:57.456
Does it fulfill a need or a purpose?

00:43:57.456 --> 00:43:59.840
Is there utility there?

00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:00.943
That's super important.

00:44:01.409 --> 00:44:02.291
Amazing, amazing.

00:44:02.291 --> 00:44:22.672
Well, this has been a fantastic conversation and we've covered, actually, quite a lot within it, and I know there's so much more that we could talk about, and I'm just going to remind people where to find you, which is petertoychercom, which is P-E-T-E-R-T-E-U-S-C-H-E-R, and that's in the show notes.

00:44:22.672 --> 00:44:27.610
Peter, has there been a favorite part of our conversation for you today?

00:44:29.496 --> 00:44:31.570
Oh, not one favorite, I think.

00:44:31.570 --> 00:44:35.402
Look, the topic of beliefs is something that's so important to me.

00:44:35.402 --> 00:44:53.893
But I'm glad we got to the leadership piece, because, although I think I'm super passionate about coaching individuals in their personal lives and in organizations, but I think we need more leaders that are coming from a place of clear values, clear vision.

00:44:53.893 --> 00:44:56.724
So I'm glad we got there.

00:44:56.724 --> 00:45:06.485
Even though I love helping people in their personal lives, I think we need more positive, passionate leaders in society, in our organizations.

00:45:06.485 --> 00:45:09.677
So, yeah, I'm really glad we got to that point, fantastic.

00:45:09.956 --> 00:45:20.961
Excellent and final thing, do you have a reflection question that you would like to leave the listeners with to reflect on and contemplate over the coming week?

00:45:20.961 --> 00:45:25.942
That will help them connect to this whole question of understanding that we are not our beliefs.

00:45:27.809 --> 00:45:45.938
Yeah, I think a great place to start is, if there's something that you want to change in your life or there's a challenge that you face, can you identify one belief that where you would say I think this is one of the things standing in the way?

00:45:45.938 --> 00:45:59.492
And that's not an easy thing to do and it takes a lot of reflection, but when you look at, you know a problem that you're having and you think I always end up here, and why do I always end up here?

00:45:59.492 --> 00:46:06.213
The thing to do is trace that back to okay, could there be a belief that's causing me to make these choices?

00:46:06.213 --> 00:46:07.054
That's getting me here?

00:46:07.054 --> 00:46:13.456
So I think that's what I really encourage people to do is go for every problem you have or every challenge you have.

00:46:13.456 --> 00:46:19.719
We look to blame other people and other situations and that puts us in what I like to call the victim trap.

00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:25.661
Right, and that's not an empowering place to do, to be so with for everything that you face in life.

00:46:25.661 --> 00:46:29.757
Ask yourself is there a belief that's led to a choice that's led to this outcome?

00:46:29.757 --> 00:46:32.163
And I think that that's a really great place to start.

00:46:32.690 --> 00:46:41.259
That's a fantastic place to start and I can imagine if everyone does that over the coming week, that could create quite an interesting ripple of awareness occurring.

00:46:41.259 --> 00:46:43.695
Oh, I love that Very, very exciting.

00:46:43.695 --> 00:46:44.097
I love that.

00:46:44.097 --> 00:46:45.114
Thank you so much.

00:46:51.271 --> 00:46:54.679
So, peter Toyshaw, thank you very much for coming on the show and have a wonderful day.

00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:55.039
Thank you.

00:46:55.059 --> 00:46:58.668
I'm so grateful to have been with you and to have had this conversation.

00:46:58.668 --> 00:47:14.217
So thank you very much my pleasure, Thank you for listening to Truth and Transcendence and thank you for supporting the show by rating, reviewing, subscribing, buying me a coffee and telling a friend rating, reviewing, subscribing, buying me a coffee and telling a friend.

00:47:14.217 --> 00:47:22.182
If you'd like to know more about my work, you can find out about Transformational Coaching, Pellewa and the Freedom of Spirit workshop on beingspaceworld.

00:47:22.182 --> 00:47:25.052
Have a wonderful week and I'll see you next time.

Ep 202: Peter Teuscher ~ Meditation, True Self & the Power of Beliefs

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