Jan. 10, 2025
Ep 196: Rich Friesen ~ Reframing Beliefs & Transcending Political Divides
What if the beliefs you've held since childhood are holding you back from personal growth and practical success in your life? Join us for a fascinating conversation with Rich Friesen, who guides us through the transformative process of reframing deeply ingrained beliefs. Rich, currently penning his new book "Healing the Political Divide," shares his "golden keys" process for developing self-awareness and agency. Together, we explore the impact of early beliefs on our identity and behaviours, and how consciously re-evaluating them can lead to extraordinary personal and spiritual development.
We also navigate the complexities of belief systems and community connections, discussing the challenges and rewards of moving from rigid belief structures, like for example Christian evangelicalism, to more diverse worldviews. Rich shares insights on embracing uncertainty and finding belonging in a broader spectrum of communities. We reflect on the powerful role of self-acceptance in fostering genuine connections across differences, highlighting how acceptance can transform how we interact within diverse circles.
In our exploration of political and financial landscapes, Rich addresses the "Trump trauma" phenomenon, offering insights into achieving inner healing by detaching our sense of safety from external events. He challenges prevailing notions around money, urging listeners to reconsider the "cult of poverty" mindset and recognise money as a 'certificate of appreciation'. By cultivating self-awareness and embracing personal freedom, we provide listeners with tools to navigate today's complex world while deepening their journey of growth. Join us for an episode that promises to enrich your understanding of belief and belonging in a rapidly changing world.
Find Rich here:
conversations.money
rich@mindmuscles.com
mindmuscles.com
Find Rich's book on Amazon: A Private Conversation with Money
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00:02 - 'Belief Reframing for Personal Growth
15:30 - Navigating Belief Systems and Community Connections
26:34 - Healing Political Division Through Inner Transformation
33:38 - Unconscious Beliefs and Money
WEBVTT
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Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by being Space with Katherine Llewellyn.
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Truth and Transcendence, episode 196, with special guest Rich Friesen.
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Now Rich is here today to talk about reframing beliefs, and there's a particular context for that that Rich is working on at the moment, because he's working on a new book called Healing the Political Divide, which I think most people listening could not possibly argue that that's not something that could be considered and looked at.
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I think we all know there is a political divide, not just in the US, but in the UK as well, and probably in other places that I know less about.
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So Richard is the creator of the neuroscience-based Mind Muscles model.
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He's been a futures broker, a floor trader, he's founded an options trading firm and a financial software company.
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He holds 10 significant financial interface patents, a master's in clinical psychology, a master's in NLP and he's the author of A Private Conversation with Money.
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So this is a thoughtful man who looks into things deeply and has really explored in application a lot of what he's working with.
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So very, very exciting.
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And you can find Richard Friesen at conversationsmoney conversationsmoney.
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So, richard, thank you so much for coming on the show.
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Oh, this is my pleasure.
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I've listened to a couple of your podcasts and just love the depth and the critical thinking that you do as versus just symptomatic do versus just symptomatic bullhorn, just repeating things that satisfy some sort of a bias we have.
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So your thoughtfulness is much appreciated.
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Thank you so much.
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I really appreciate that.
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That is of course, what I'm going for.
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So whenever someone actually notices and appreciates it, I'm so grateful, and particularly coming up, we're just coming into the new year.
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It's very easy to come into the new year just thinking about what I failed to do last year.
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It's really nice to get a compliment right off the bat.
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Thank you, rich, very much indeed.
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Now I'm just going to say a little bit about this business of reframing beliefs.
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It is my belief that we tend toward over-attachment to our beliefs, and I think the key problem with that is when we do it unconsciously, because that's when the attachment to our beliefs can actually cause us problems.
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When we're conscious of them, we're in a much better place, and I think that loosening this attachment is liberating and empowering.
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And, rich, I know that you've been looking at this in relation to the political divide, but in my opinion, reframing our beliefs is crucial in every area of our lives.
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I wonder what you think about that.
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Yes, what you're bringing up is so important is that when we grow up, we have embedded in us beliefs from our parents, from our community, from our religion, from our culture.
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And as we grow up, those beliefs tend to if we think of it in a neurological model the deeper they're buried, the sooner they're created, the more they impact all the other layers of our behaviors.
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It impacts our skills, it impacts our behaviors, our beliefs and even down to our core identity and, below that, even our spiritual values.
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So as we become more aware of it, in fact, I have a process I call the golden keys.
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The first is awareness.
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In fact, I'll do it right now.
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What am I aware of?
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Shoulders are a little tense on the physiological level, throat is relaxed.
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I'm slowing down a bit.
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Emotionally, I would say I'm really excited to talk to you.
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So there's some excitement that translates sometimes into tension and my thought process is this is just going to flow so nicely.
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So, awareness, but the next step is acceptance.
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In other words, if I'm aware of my shoulders are tight and I go, rich, don't have tight shoulders, if I and instead I go, ah, my shoulders are tight, I wonder what message they have for me.
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That's fascinating.
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And the final is what is our quality of our thoughts?
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So if we can bring these to awareness, then we can get agency.
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We can say, okay, now, what do I want?
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And so the process of awareness is the start of, I think, opening new doors to ourselves.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And, as you say there, you're looking at awareness in a number of different ways, aren't you?
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You're not just saying I'm just trying to be more aware.
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You're looking at the physical, the emotional and the thought process.
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Exactly.
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Presumably as a way of sort of making sure you don't miss anything.
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It's easy to focus on, isn't it?
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Yes, by dividing them up into my physiology awareness, my emotional awareness and the quality of my thoughts, it's specific enough that we can go into each one where, if we just say awareness, self-awareness, it's more ephemeral.
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Absolutely.
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And then you're saying then you have agency.
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You can then start to make a choice about what.
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Yes, yes if we repeat our awareness enough, eventually that awareness becomes a, an agent that we can start making our choices from, because normally, if somebody says something to me, I just react, and so there's no difference between the external stimulus and my reaction, whereas if I'm aware of it, and I'm aware of it repeatedly enough, eventually I can have agency from that level.
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Yes.
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Yeah, so you're not automatic in your reaction.
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Not as automatic Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So, richard, you've obviously reflected on these sorts of things deeply over some significant period of time.
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If you cast your mind back, can you remember the first time that you realized that our relationship with our beliefs and that reframing our beliefs was something that was interesting and important to you?
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Yeah, that was five, six years ago.
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I read a book called the Book of Not Knowing by Peter Rolston.
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Wow Boy, it's a hard book.
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It's a tough book to read because I so want to attach myself to what I know and the realization that I grew up a Christian evangelical.
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My father was a preacher.
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I carried my Bible to school and in fact I didn't even like to date because some of the girls were Catholics, were heathens.
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And then in college I lost my faith and I went to the inner city in Chicago and saw the misery there, became a very liberal political person and believed that.
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Then I moved to California and read Ayn Rand.
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I became a dedicated libertarian, ran for US Congress as a libertarian.
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Wow.
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And then, reading this book, it occurred to me at every stage Rich Friesen, the one person in the world that had the absolute positive truth, yes, the one person in the world that had the absolute positive truth, yes, and I'm thinking, huh, do I have the absolute positive truth right now?
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And the answer is, of course, yes I do.
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But so what I've done is how do I manage the fact that there's some human part of me that is so deep that needs absolute truth and a higher level spiritual agency that looks down on Rich and sees each stage where he's had the absolute truth?
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And so how I've managed that for myself and what I am starting to work with others and communicate is that Rich Friesen has an emotional truth.
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So rather than trying to say, rich, you don't really know, you can't know the truth, stop thinking that way I say, okay, rich Friesen has an emotional truth and again, that goes into our agency.
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So I'm looking at Rich Friesen's emotional truth from a higher level so I can step into it.
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I don't judge myself for it.
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I know that this may be temporary from a higher level, it's just so difficult.
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So I said, why don't I just accept it and just relabel it?
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Yes, and when you say difficult to not have a truth, is that similar to saying it's difficult to not have an opinion or a perspective, or are you saying something different from that?
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Yeah, that's another way to do it.
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Say my current opinion is, for example, I teach communication and right now I'm starting a workshop on what I call Trump trauma people who are traumatized by our current political divide and we can have opinions, we can have perspectives, we can have strongly held beliefs, and so how do we label those?
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And one of the communications tools I use is my current model.
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Political model is my current belief is.
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So when we talk to others, that gives them the sense that we understand that we have a belief system that is temporary, or we appreciate that we're not so attached to it that we're going to beat somebody else up over the belief.
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Yes, so we're not seeing it quite as absolute sort of absolute end of story.
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Yes, and given also that there's the part of us that wants that so bad, right?
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Yes, I understand.
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So you're accepting the fact that we really want to feel that we know our opinion to be right, and accepting what our opinion might be in that moment and how we feel about it, and accepting that that might not be the end of it?
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That's correct and that gives us some perspective.
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So if we all say, okay, I want to connect with you.
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We have different emotional beliefs.
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I can respect my emotional belief, I can respect their emotional belief and now we can connect on either, you know, depend on geography, or a higher level, or a deeper spiritual level, because we both recognize that we have a need for a belief system and we look at it from a higher perspective.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, this reminds me, over here there was a lot of well, I don't quite know what to call it with the lockdowns and the vaccine back several years ago and there were a lot of people sort of falling out about whether you should have the vaccine or not, family members, families breaking up, one person believed one thing and one person believed the other.
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And I had this extraordinary conversation with someone very close to me where they were going to do one thing and I was going to do the other thing.
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It's not really relevant which way round it was, and we were both very concerned about each other because we both thought the other person was making a choice that was going to possibly be very dangerous for them, and in the end we ended up saying, do you know what I love you much more than whether I'm right about this.
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It was a very sweet moment and I can even remember where.
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I was exactly in that conversation and I hope what you're doing works for you.
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If not, I'll do everything in my power to help you.
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If it goes wrong, and that was an incredibly educational moment for me.
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Actually, I had to sort of peel myself off what I thought and suddenly go hold on what's really important in this relationship.
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Not a jab, you know that's not very important compared to the love.
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if we look at what you're saying, that if my belief system, in order for me to feel safe, I need to have this belief system and I need you to have this belief system, or else we don't have a relationship, the ability to step in to a world where it says I have enough confidence, my faith in myself, that I don't need external support and a belief system of everyone around me to be okay.
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That is a maturation level, almost a spiritual maturation level, where it says I can handle other people's belief system because my real connection, my real value system, is that connection with that other human being as versus.
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I need an external structure to feel and to be safe.
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Yes, and you said something a bit like when we were talking before about this word safe.
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I found really interesting, because I don't think people consider that very often, when they think about people being attached to beliefs, they don't think well, they're using that belief to make themselves feel safe or their relationship with that belief is something to do with feeling safe.
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So I'd love to hear a bit more about the mechanics of that that you've discovered, to hear a bit more about the mechanics of that that you've discovered.
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Sure, imagine that you.
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Well, I'll use myself as an example.
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I grew up a Christian evangelical.
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My father was a preacher.
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I went to a very fundamentalist Christian point of view that I knew that God loved me, that the church had behavioral standards, that I was expected to live a certain life in a certain way.
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So I had all this external structure and I didn't need an internal one.
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So, as my faith fell apart for a bunch of reasons, then how do I face the world, since I depended on this external structure that is no longer there?
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Right, okay.
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So how did the external structure give you safety?
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How does that work?
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Oh my gosh, I had the truth.
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I had a community of people who believed exactly like I do.
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My belief system was never questioned in that community.
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There was love within that structure because we all believed the same.
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There was no conflicts.
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In fact, there was a huge amount of benefit from that.
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I grew up in a dysfunctional family and I knew God loved me.
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The men at prayer meetings would hold hands in a circle and pray for each other.
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Oh my gosh, just a lot of great stuff.
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And as that fell apart, then the question becomes am I able to face a world where I don't know?
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Right, because the certainty had gone.
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The certainty is gone and then it becomes.
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You know, the phrase for me was I don't need to know.
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No matter what happens, it's going to be okay.
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I am able to handle chaos and certainty and evaluate the world as it comes to me, and I don't need to do it from a place of absolute certainty.
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That was not trivial and it still isn't.
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You know, I'm maybe 50% of the way there, or something as you said, is a piece of maturation in the life, isn't it?
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Because it's possible to go all the way through life without touching that possibility?
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And when you were describing that wonderful experience of the connection with the men's circles and the acceptance and the love and the certainty, and then you described.
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You mentioned losing, it Was there fear at that point.
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Oh yeah, and I still have it.
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I mean, there's still a part of community that I missed that you know I am friends with religious people, very progressive political, democrat people, republican, very conservative people, and the wonderful thing about that approach to letting go of absolute certainty is the ability to connect on a human level with a wider range of people and at the same time, it's really good to be in a community of people where you can just go oh, you know I don't have to be this magical guru whose understanding of everybody's belief systems.
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Totally.
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I know exactly what you mean.
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I have a couple of communities I'm involved with, but you couldn't really call it.
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There are only communities, in that we all hang out together quite a lot.
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It's not like a formal community, but there is something in each of them.
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There's something we all have in common and that we're all kind of engaged with, and so there's a sort of common language.
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There's a kind of belonging, a sense of belonging, and there are differences of opinion of all sorts in there, but there's a place where there's a connection and that is comforting, but without being sort of numbing.
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You know it's not running away from life and it's very interesting.
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You know, you said you lost that lovely community experience that you had back then.
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Back then, but through your exploration since then you've now discovered that you can actually create and receive a wonderful experience of connection with a much broader combination of people than you could, then which is a flip, isn't it it?
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is and I still enjoy because I do have a belief system.
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Now I label it as my emotional belief system and to connect with other people in that emotional belief system feels really good.
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Absolutely 100%, and I think it's really good to remind us of that.
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Yeah, we're clan animals.
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When we were in the clan on the savannas of Africa, if the clan expelled us, we died.
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Yeah, we have a neurology that is built to belong.
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In fact, in the book Conversation with Money, one of the exercises is what does your clan believe around?
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Money and wealth and success, and wealth and success.
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And if that belief system in that particular community is structured so that it limits your decisions, limits your abilities, limits the world you want to live in?
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When we change our belief system, oh my gosh, we leave people behind.
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Now, if that is unconscious and that is a drag, and then we wonder why.
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You know, we know what we want and we just keep going back and forth.
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Once we become more aware of the communities that will no longer support us or accept us, we can then now say, okay, rich Friesen is not going to be accepted by this community, perhaps.
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But what if I accepted myself and come to this community?
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Honestly, it's amazing how the imagination is sometimes very far removed from the reality, because when I'm myself, it's amazing.
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People of all different stripes kind of you know, they tolerate me at least.
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Well, you know, it's interesting, the people, some of the most unappealing people that I've come across are the ones who are incredibly wedded to beliefs.
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And, funnily enough, I had this bizarre conversation with somebody where I said look, right now, the way you're behaving is completely intolerable.
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This person was banging on about their opinions about something and they said well, don't you agree with what I'm saying?
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I said I actually agree 100% with what you're saying, but you are currently assaulting me with this belief.
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I agree with you and the way you're doing it is intolerable.
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It's just you need to shut up.
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And they found it really difficult to understand that.
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Yeah, and if and I expect you, you do this you come to that with love.
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That, depending on their filters, if they can feel the love as the prime prime force in your relationship, it's amazing how much differences you can tolerate.
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Yes, yes, absolutely, or how you can actually explain how it's difficult to receive that communication.
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Explain what might work better, what might be more tolerable.
00:24:16.541 --> 00:24:16.741
Yep.
00:24:18.188 --> 00:24:23.205
In the US here we have Thanksgiving coming up tolerable Yep.
00:24:23.205 --> 00:24:43.619
In the US, here we have Thanksgiving coming up, and so one of the big issues that's on X and on the social media is how do you tolerate Uncle Joe who's a big Trump supporter, or how do you handle your sister who's a big liberal who wants socialism?
00:24:43.619 --> 00:24:52.816
And so there are communication skills that we can use, and those become more powerful as you come to them with love.
00:24:52.816 --> 00:25:01.030
If you're just on a high skill level, they're still helpful, but if you can come to them with love, they become more leveraged.
00:25:01.664 --> 00:25:02.807
Absolutely Well.
00:25:02.807 --> 00:25:10.114
I suppose it's important to also acknowledge that sometimes we lose touch with our ability to come at it with love.
00:25:10.114 --> 00:25:14.970
You know, sometimes we can get annoyed or kind of step outside of that.
00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:20.147
And I imagine you sometimes are working with clients where that's what they're grappling with.
00:25:20.147 --> 00:25:20.871
Is that my?
00:25:20.871 --> 00:25:21.854
Is that a correct guess?
00:25:23.688 --> 00:25:24.111
No, I don't.
00:25:24.111 --> 00:25:25.904
I've never felt annoyed with a client.
00:25:26.266 --> 00:25:31.655
No, what I mean is where the client is encountering situations where it's difficult for them.
00:25:32.458 --> 00:25:32.838
Oh yes.
00:25:33.205 --> 00:25:36.414
Love in the situation, even though they know that's what to do.
00:25:36.865 --> 00:25:44.208
Yeah, the more attached we are to our beliefs to feel safe another belief, that's different, means we're not safe.
00:25:44.208 --> 00:25:47.950
We drop down into our survival mechanism.
00:25:47.950 --> 00:25:52.912
And once we drop down into our survival mechanism, boom, boom, boom.
00:25:52.912 --> 00:26:02.537
Then communication and love disappear because we're you know, we're close to being threatened with death.
00:26:02.537 --> 00:26:04.877
Is how our brain interprets that.
00:26:05.218 --> 00:26:08.900
Yeah, you were saying something you were mentioning before about.
00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:15.163
I can't remember what you called it, but it was something around Trump trauma syndrome.
00:26:15.282 --> 00:26:16.182
Oh, trump trauma.
00:26:16.182 --> 00:26:16.442
Yes.
00:26:18.105 --> 00:26:32.862
Okay, I was interested in that because you were saying before that you're working with some people where their kind of relationship with that is actually causing practical, tangible problems in their life.
00:26:32.862 --> 00:26:34.117
Could you say a bit more about that?
00:26:34.583 --> 00:26:34.744
Sure.
00:26:34.744 --> 00:26:39.173
So, mike, I have a number of clients Most of them are around financial.
00:26:39.173 --> 00:26:53.119
They're professional traders, money managers and investors and I have a couple of clients now that they flew all over the country to elect Democrats.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:58.334
Big commitment to that, and now, oh my gosh, this happened.
00:26:58.334 --> 00:27:00.672
The world's going to come to an end.
00:27:00.672 --> 00:27:03.271
I'm going to pull all my money out of the market.
00:27:03.271 --> 00:27:04.015
What do I do?
00:27:04.704 --> 00:27:25.667
And so they are dropping down into survival mode in what I call Trump trauma at this point, but to separate their financial decisions and their career decisions from their financial decisions.
00:27:25.667 --> 00:27:45.269
So that is an interesting process because once again, it comes down to moving from requiring our external world to keep us safe to you know, this is going to be interesting, fascinating.
00:27:45.269 --> 00:27:46.029
Huh.
00:27:46.029 --> 00:27:48.474
I wonder what opportunities there are for me.
00:27:48.474 --> 00:27:51.508
I wonder if who's going to be in pain?
00:27:51.508 --> 00:27:52.750
How can I help them out?
00:27:52.750 --> 00:28:03.237
Wow, this is an opportunity for me, as an agent, to be able to spread love or create a a better world for people.
00:28:03.237 --> 00:28:06.288
How can I do it and how can I contribute as versus?
00:28:06.288 --> 00:28:09.996
Oh my god, the world's falling apart it's all over.
00:28:10.817 --> 00:28:15.048
Yeah, that is that is how people talk or think sometimes, isn't it?
00:28:15.048 --> 00:28:39.335
They think it's all over it's all over I've had people saying, if, if trump gets in, democracy is dead there is no democracy ever again and people actually believing that um um and having a lot of distress as a result, which, if nothing else, is not good for your health, is it?
00:28:40.136 --> 00:28:47.458
Oh no, I mean having that belief system.
00:28:47.458 --> 00:28:53.105
You know, you can feel it in your stomach, you can feel it in your solar plexus, you feel it in your muscular tension.
00:28:53.105 --> 00:28:54.086
It takes.
00:28:54.086 --> 00:29:02.813
You know, if that stress becomes consistent over time, it's going to take years off of your life.
00:29:03.193 --> 00:29:13.875
Yeah, yeah, so you're working on a book around healing the political divide.
00:29:13.875 --> 00:29:16.659
Is that actually the name of the book, or is the name to be the?
00:29:16.679 --> 00:29:16.779
same.
00:29:16.779 --> 00:29:18.627
Yeah, that's the tentative name.
00:29:18.627 --> 00:29:22.171
There's no other book of that title that I've researched.
00:29:22.171 --> 00:29:26.387
And here's the challenge and we've talked about this.
00:29:26.387 --> 00:29:29.576
It's about really healing yourself.
00:29:29.576 --> 00:29:30.779
And we've talked about this.
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:29.987
It's about really healing yourself.
00:29:31.902 --> 00:29:32.083
Right.
00:29:32.123 --> 00:29:36.011
Again, it comes down to not knowing.
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