Ep 162: Hosein Kouros-Mehr ~ Spirituality, Equanimity, Neuroscience & Transcending the Default Mode Network

Transcript

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Truth and Transcendence, brought to you by being Space with Catherine Llewellyn.

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Truth and Transcendence, episode 162, with special guest Hossein Kouros-Meyer.

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Hossein is here to talk about equanimity, which I love that term and also the default mode network, which a lot of people are talking about at the moment.

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You can find Hossein at yourdefaultmodecom, so that is the place to go if you enjoy the way Hussain talks today, and you can also buy his book, which is called Breakthrough, master, your Default Mode and Thrive, which I think is a wonderful, wonderful book.

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So, basically, that's what you need to know, so stay and listen.

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I'm delighted that Hossein was able to come and join us.

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He's an author, obviously a physician-scientist, and he's been working for the last couple of decades in cancer research and drug development.

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He's investigated the default mode network, which apparently encodes the human ego and influences our thoughts, emotions and behaviors, hence his recent book, and he also has an intimate connection with the theme equanimity, which I think a lot of us would like greater access to in today's volatile world.

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So, hussein, thank you so much for coming on the show.

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Thank you, Catherine.

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It's a real pleasure to be here and thank you for all you do in helping people, and that is really the theme of my book, the theme of my career to help people through taking advancements in science and medicine and bringing them to people so that we can help others be the best they can be.

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So thank you, Catherine.

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Oh, thank you so much, really appreciate that.

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But you're not what I would call a straight scientist, are you?

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You know you're also interested much more broadly than that.

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Would you like to say a bit more about the connection between equanimity and the DMN?

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Uh-huh, yes.

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So this goes back about 20 years in terms of following the science, and so in neuroscience in particular, 20 years ago we had a very simplistic view of the brain.

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We knew the different anatomical parts of the brain and we knew that certain parts of the brain.

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We knew the different anatomical parts of the brain and we knew that certain parts of the brain performed functions for us the visual cortex and sort of the back of the brain.

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But our view of the brain was very simplistic and patients with depression or anxiety would see their doctor and the doctor would diagnose a disease, blame it on some chemical imbalance and prescribe medicines like SSRIs, antidepressants, without really getting to the root cause.

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And I think part of the problem is we didn't really understand the brain.

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But that is now changing.

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We're now understanding how the 86 billion neurons in our brain actually connect and wire to give rise to our ego and this higher self, this elusive higher self that we've talked about for millennia.

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We now have an objective framework to understand these things, and what comes from that understanding are new solutions, new tools that make the process of self-discovery and self-understanding a little bit more objective, and for me that's been very, very powerful.

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Back in medical school we didn't really talk about the ego or spirituality or the higher self, because there was no objective framework.

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But now there is.

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So let me explain a little bit.

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Objective framework but now there is.

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So let me explain a little bit.

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What we're understanding now is that there are at least seven networks in the brain, and so a network sounds like a complex term.

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It's quite simple.

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It's different parts of the brain that connect to perform a function for you, and so that visual network it's one of them helps us see, we use it all the time.

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And so that visual network it's one of them helps us see, we use it all the time.

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And the other networks there is auditory network it helps us hear.

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Cerebellar network, sensory motor network they help us move and sense and coordinate.

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Then you get to these three very fascinating networks that really explain a lot about who we are and why we do the things we do.

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One of them is the default mode network, and it's a set of connections in the brain that essentially give rise to the human ego, which is to say it is me, it is a storyline of I and me, and the way to recognize it is it is your wandering mind.

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So during the day, when you're focused on something and suddenly your mind goes back into the past, if you just try to observe that state, when your mind is thinking about the past, thinking about the future, you'll notice that in that state you're suddenly removed from the present moment.

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The thoughts are about me and I, and it tends to be a rather unhappy place.

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Sometimes it tends to be a self-obsessive place and that, actually that default mode network, explains a lot of our thought patterns and it is the basis for things like stress and anxiety, depression when we overthink, and that monkey mind turns on it can aggravate a lot of the issues we're facing.

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So the point of this book is to have you understand this default mode network, this wandering mind, and show you how it plays a role in things like depression and stress and anxiety.

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So I call them mental knots, like knots in a rope.

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I don't call them disorders or diseases or syndromes that you're stuck with.

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These are knots in a rope.

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You can untie the knots and you untie the knots through self-understanding and an intention to find that higher self which is actually encoded by one of the other networks which we can talk about.

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But let me pause there.

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Well, I love, I actually really enjoyed the way you call them knots, because that reminded me of if you get like a muscular knot in your shoulder or your neck or your back.

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You know it doesn't mean that your shoulder or your neck or your back.

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It doesn't mean that your shoulder or your neck or your back is broken or has to be replaced or has got something awfully wrong with it.

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It's just got a knot in it at the moment and you want to soothe that knot away.

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It doesn't mean it's not pathological.

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So I thought that word knot was really really good pathological.

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So I thought that word not was really really good.

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And also for me it went with that feeling of that kind of congested feeling that can happen when we get stuck in that kind of a mode.

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There's that feeling of it's always been like this and it's always going to be like this.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Well, that muscle knot analogy is appropriate.

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When we have a muscle knot at the moment we have it it feels painful, but what is the solution?

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The solution is to maybe give a massage and loosen those muscle fibers which have been tightened together.

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And as you loosen the muscle fibers, blood flow improves and the body naturally heals itself.

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The body and the mind are self-healing miracles.

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And the mind can heal anxiety and stress if you allow it to, if you give it the right conditions.

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You know in that if you have a muscle knot and you continue strenuous exercise and ignore it, it has a hard, the body has a hard time healing.

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And the same is true for stress and anxiety.

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If you're constantly feeding that stress and anxiety, you're not allowing your mind to heal itself.

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So in this book, these 11 Nots, I walk through each of them and talk about why do they occur, what is the role of the default mode network in them and how do you heal them.

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And each of them has a remedy.

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So for equanimity, the not, there is negativity.

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Negativity, it's pervasive around the world, it is part of our reptilian brain.

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Our brain is wired to focus, I should say, on the negative, and it's why the nightly news starts with the worst stories, because we may have a dozen experiences from yesterday.

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We focus on the most negative.

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It's what our brain is wired to do, but there is a way to come out of that and it is by harnessing this equanimity, and that is the remedy for the knot of negativity.

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And there are 10 other knots we can talk about and, by the way, these knots are presented in a particular order and it starts with stress.

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Stress is the way these knots are presented, in a particular order, and it starts with stress.

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Stress is the number one and once you can bring your stress level down, it helps to untie the other knots.

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Yes, I noticed that.

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About the sequencing.

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I thought it was very interesting that you started with stress, and I thought that makes perfect sense, because if I'm stressed, everything else is out of the question.

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Okay, I'm stressed.

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Great, catherine, just relax.

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What do you mean?

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I can't relax, I'm stressed.

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Okay, well, just meditate, impossible, and all the things that are really great to do.

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So I think it was very interesting the way that you chose that sequencing.

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That's true, dear listeners, we're not going to go through all the knots today.

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You're going to have to get the book because, seriously, this book is….

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You could actually meditate on each chapter and on each knot for an extended period.

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You mentioned earlier that I've been doing work, helping people.

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Something I've done for years is where I'm working with somebody and they want to go very deep into self-development, and they've chosen a theme for each month and they concentrated on that one theme for an entire month.

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And book is, you know, I would say, like a 12 month program, because you've got each knot and then you've got the bit at the beginning and the conclusion at the end that wraps around it you know, it could very, very easily be just a fantastic process of doing that.

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so, coming back to equanimity, so you're saying that negativity is the knot that is a barrier to equanimity, or are you saying equanimity is the solution to?

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Equanimity is a solution.

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So the knot of negativity it has to do with and it goes back to that default mode network.

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What it's trying to do when it wanders off from the present, has you thinking about the past, maybe a recent argument you had, or has you worried about the future?

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What it's trying to do it is trying to help you by improving your chances of success and survival, and so it sort of seeks out the negative and has you focus on it so that it prepares you for the future.

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That's what it's trying to do.

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And, yeah, thousands of years ago, when we lived in caves and jungles and there were predators around us and we had little food, that type of thinking helped us survive.

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Clearly, that type of thinking helped us survive.

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Clearly, by focusing on those negative threats, it helped guarantee our survival.

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Well, today, times are different and for most of us, we're not under constant threat, and yet our thoughts still are drowning us at times with these threats that may not actually be there, and so a social media post or something from the news.

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It is as if our mind and body think a threat is approaching and that triggers the fight or flight response, the stress response which can wreak havoc on our bodies, the fight or flight response, the stress response which can wreck havoc on our bodies.

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So, coming to understand this reptilian brain that we sometimes have in that default mode network, coming to learn about it and understand it and challenge it and to learn to shut off this default mode network, which you can do through things like mindfulness exercises, through prayer, through breathing exercises, through setting intention, through compassion meditation and equanimity meditation, which is very powerful, you can actually shut off the default mode network.

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This has been shown in clinical studies, fmri studies, imaging studies of meditators, that you can actually shut this thing down.

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And the key is to turn on one of the other seven networks.

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It has a name.

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It's called the central executive network Fancy term it is your observing mind.

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So, rather than the wandering mind of the default mode, this is your observing mind.

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When you do a prayer or a mindfulness exercise, you turn on that observing mind, become present and there's an acceptance and an honesty of the present moment.

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That is your central executive.

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And when you learn to use that part of the brain more, you'll find that it can grow, that it can build over time, that observing mind is a very, very powerful tool and so with, for example, equanimity meditation.

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You'll spend 15-20 minutes becoming aware of the present moment and learn to recognize those negative thoughts, wait for them to arrive, label them and allow them to disappear, just like watching clouds in the sky.

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And as you're turning on that observing mind, its power grows over time and after a few weeks you'll find that those negative thoughts come, you can observe them and then they're off on their way without them impacting you.

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And it is incredibly powerful and you can overcome that negativity to discover the absolute joy of the present moment and that observing mind inherently is a peaceful place that is content with the present moment.

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And so part of this is learning to spend more time in that observing mind.

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That central executive network Lovely, that central executive network.

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Lovely, the central executive network.

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It makes it sound very important and it makes it sound like it's in charge, which, of course, is what you're saying.

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Isn't it To bring that more?

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Allow that really to be leading rather than being led by the default mode network?

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it sounds like to be leading rather than being led by the default mode network.

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It sounds like that's right.

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Well, our species has a name we're Homo sapiens, the wise human being.

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What makes us different from reptiles and other mammals?

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All other animals have a brainstem.

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That's sort of the part of the brain that connects interfaces with the body.

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It's what controls our heart rate and breathing.

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That brainstem, Surrounding the brainstem, is what's called the limbic system and that's where you have emotions are generated, like fear in the amygdala, and other emotions are generated in that.

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Surrounding that brainstem is the neocortex and that's what makes us human and the central executive really sits at the top, there, at the very front of our brain, in the prefrontal cortex.

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So a lot of us spend most of our time in the limbic system and that's where the default mode network has a big presence.

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And in that state, when you live in that default mode, you're constantly reacting to things throughout the day wanting this, disliking, wanting, disliking.

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It is a very judgmental, reactive place, tends to be negative and it can be a painful way to live if you're stuck in that.

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But that process of self-understanding, self-discovery, you're actually tuning into that central executive when you learn about yourself.

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So just the process of self-understanding gives you some space from that default mode network, and that's what this book is trying to help you do.

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Well, thank you very much for writing and publishing it.

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I can tell from reading through it that it was a lot of work and you've woven in.

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I said earlier, you're not just a straight scientist and what I meant by that is you know it's clearly from the book and from a couple of things you've said you're also connected into spirituality and philosophical notions, and the fact that we picked on equanimity when we spoke before really struck me, because to me, equanimity has strong spiritual overtones to it.

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It's almost like a sacred state to be in, and I wonder if you'd like to share with us your story or your history in relationship to equanimity.

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I mean, can you remember when you first understood the notion of equanimity and recognized it as something that was really important to you?

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That's right.

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Equanimity is at the heart of the Buddhist faith.

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It's one of the great virtues in Buddhism.

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It's at the heart of the Christian faith.

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Jesus talked about it.

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You find it in the torah and in many other religions.

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Um, I was one who had all 11 of these mental knots until my 40s and where I it was about a six to nine month process where I really discovered and understood my brain.

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Back in medical school 20 years ago, there was very little, if any, spirituality mentioned and medical school was more like going to a plumbing school where we learned about the pipes and these were where the pipes are located and if you find a clog in a pipe, this is how you remove the clog.

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But things are changing now and I am seeing clinical studies published showing the power of spirituality in improving health.

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These are clinical studies showing the power of equanimity, of forgiveness, of integrity, and it is remarkable to see and again, these are objective papers.

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So the tides have changed and science and medicine is now taking a seat at the table with spirituality and all of the learnings from our spiritual forebears.

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We're now seeing the deep meaning they have, even just on a physical level, how they improve our lives, how they improve our resilience and well-being.

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So for me it's a process, really a 40-year process, that's taken me to the core of spirituality and it's interesting that that's where the journey has taken me.

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But I'm a much, much happier person now than I was, you know, five, 10 years ago, where I was just obsessed about my growth and my survival and me, me, my, because that's what we're taught.

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We're taught that happiness depends on our individual success and so if for us to win, someone else has to lose that's how we're taught.

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That unintentionally takes us down this road of unhappiness and distress and that's a hallmark of the default mode network.

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It's me and my survival.

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Unfortunately, you see this in politics today it's about my party and the other party is wrong, and there's still hallmarks of that default mode even in our politics.

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But I think, as we start to understand our deeper selves and our higher self, I think we can return to a happier place and I think that's where humanity has to go, that that is where we have to go if we want to be happy and prosper here wow, okay.

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so that's really fascinating because you've actually done an awful lot in quite a short period of time.

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By the sounds of it, it sounds like you sort of what was the switch point?

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Was there a switch point or was it a gradual thing?

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You said you were obsessed with these knots.

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You had all these knots, you had the full collection, which I can admit, I've got the full collection, or at least in potential, and probably many of us have.

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And there you were and you were studying medicine.

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What happened to kind?

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of assist you or catalyze you to start, there was well, the journey started on one day.

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I remember there was one day where there was just this unhappiness and it was like why am I unhappy?

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I've accomplished everything and I have a young family and things are fine.

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And there was just this desire, this intention to get to the root cause of these issues.

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And I remember searching the term nirvana and I came across a video of someone who said nirvana doesn't just fall out of a tree, you don't just wake up and experience it, you have to want it and work for it every single day.

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And so I set this intention to experience this and get to the root causes.

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I didn't know where the journey would take me, but it was a six to nine month process where really I untied the knots as I describe in the book, with the remedies that I describe, and it was at the beginning.

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I call it.

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It's like walking through the desert it's painful, you're thirsty, it's difficult and you spend the first few weeks not seeing any change.

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But suddenly you see this desert rose and it's just spectacular and that sort of moments of serenity and clarity and you feel like something is happening.

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And as the weeks go by, you spend more time in that tranquil state.

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And then for me it was about six months later where I looked back and said, wow, I've really changed.

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Didn't happen overnight, but I was no longer that negative, judgmental person.

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My baseline mood wasn't just overall down, I had learned to overcome stress and anxiety and the present moment was a blissful place, just following the breath and just walking outside and having gratitude just for the blue sky, just for existing.

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And I think there was a realization at one point that the universe is just so massive and it's just so miraculous that we are here, conscious, and having that gratitude simply for being alive.

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And I think that was the day I realized, wow, things have really changed.

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It was not an overnight, quick process.

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Well, thank you, Congratulations.

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Very beautiful and actually in my experience, six months to make a shift of that significance is quite impressive.

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How did you find out what to do to help you make that?

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shift.

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The most important thing was the intention.

00:23:58.758 --> 00:24:06.595
Setting that intention every day May I be happy, healthy and at peace, may my family may my neighbors, may strangers.

00:24:06.595 --> 00:24:13.192
And setting that intention and the road kind of appeared.

00:24:13.192 --> 00:24:16.589
Rumi has said this, jesus has said this seek and you shall find.

00:24:16.589 --> 00:24:19.133
You have to set that intention.

00:24:19.133 --> 00:24:23.488
One of the knots, addictive, craving, painful way to live.

00:24:23.488 --> 00:24:38.760
That one involved the process of surrendering and setting an intention for a better place, which I received insights into, that journey, into what should come next.

00:24:38.760 --> 00:24:42.163
There were insights For people of faith, into what, what should come next.

00:24:42.163 --> 00:24:47.153
There were insights For people of faith those insights come from God, um.

00:24:47.153 --> 00:24:52.131
For people with a more scientific background, those insights come from the subconscious mind.

00:24:52.131 --> 00:24:57.131
But you know, you said you know, heeding those insights when they arrive very important.

00:24:57.131 --> 00:25:03.733
But setting that intention was was was number one, um and uh, yeah, those insights.

00:25:03.794 --> 00:25:09.434
There's a story there was a student at the University of Cambridge and he was trying to crack the Sanskrit code.

00:25:09.434 --> 00:25:16.615
There's this ancient code from this language and for thousands of years scholars were unable to decode this.

00:25:16.615 --> 00:25:21.517
And so this young graduate student tried for a few months.

00:25:21.517 --> 00:25:23.172
It was nearly impossible.

00:25:23.172 --> 00:25:26.233
But he set this intention that I must solve this.

00:25:26.233 --> 00:25:38.471
But he ended up taking a month off meditating, reconnecting with nature, and a month later he came back, looked at the code and the solution was right there and he cracked the code.

00:25:38.471 --> 00:25:40.250
That insight came to him.

00:25:40.250 --> 00:25:46.191
Whether it came from a higher power weight, whether it came from deep in his central executive, who knows.

00:25:46.191 --> 00:25:49.457
But those insights will arrive.

00:25:49.457 --> 00:25:57.446
If you set that intention and you wait for them, they'll arrive and they'll take you to a better place, just as your mind and body naturally heal.

00:25:58.468 --> 00:26:05.756
Um so how wonderful and and I I actually think working with intention in that way.

00:26:05.756 --> 00:26:17.578
You've got to be in the right space, I think, for that to work, Because I've also experienced myself and heard other people who, well, I've set the intention, where's the result?

00:26:17.578 --> 00:26:23.934
They're not in the right attitude for it to work.

00:26:23.934 --> 00:26:25.719
In the way that you describe it.

00:26:25.719 --> 00:26:34.358
You sound like you put yourself into a very open space, a receptive space, Would you say.

00:26:34.358 --> 00:26:34.965
That was true.

00:26:35.747 --> 00:26:44.220
Definitely, I think, exercising developing a mind that is more receptive to those insights.

00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.189
Actually, equanimity plays a role here.

00:26:46.189 --> 00:26:52.391
So when you're let's say you're meditating for 20 minutes and thoughts are arriving, thoughts are arriving.

00:26:52.391 --> 00:27:13.705
When you learn to practice that equanimity, you learn to label those thoughts and just let them go on their way, those negative thoughts, judgmental thoughts, as you learn to observe and not have a relationship with those thoughts, but watch them come and watch them go.

00:27:13.705 --> 00:27:24.057
What you'll notice is the insights actually arrive more frequently and you'll recognize insights as they come and it helps you become more productive.

00:27:24.057 --> 00:27:31.459
So I think you can develop a brain, develop that environment where those insights come more readily.

00:27:31.459 --> 00:27:54.757
And so regularly practicing mindfulness exercise, prayer and breathing exercises, developing a more calm state and we, you know we have a thought every two to four seconds there are thoughts coming and when you build that observing mind and you allow these thoughts to come and go, you'll notice more insights will arrive.

00:27:54.757 --> 00:27:58.112
It's not going to happen overnight, but try it out and see.

00:27:58.112 --> 00:28:00.346
That's really the only way, amazing.

00:28:01.150 --> 00:28:03.164
Fantastic, and when did you start writing the book?

00:28:04.708 --> 00:28:11.619
I wrote the book about a few months after that journey, that six or nine month journey.

00:28:11.619 --> 00:28:13.528
That's when I wrote the book.

00:28:13.528 --> 00:28:19.028
And I wrote the book for my children because I said I wish I had done this earlier.

00:28:19.288 --> 00:28:27.986
I wish I had done this 20 years earlier, and so I wanted them to have a tool, because I didn't have any tools like this growing up and I was looking for a book like this.

00:28:27.986 --> 00:28:31.875
I couldn't find it, a book that combines the science and the medicine.

00:28:31.875 --> 00:28:54.499
I mean, there are fantastic books out there by Eckhart Tolle, by great Buddhist scholars, but I wanted a book that had the science, that had the medicine, made this process a little more objective, because I have a lot of family and friends who I just mention Buddha and they just ignore me, or I mention spirituality and they're not interested.

00:28:54.499 --> 00:29:03.291
But I find that when I put in some of the clinical studies and the medicine, they're more receptive to it.

00:29:03.291 --> 00:29:09.635
But really, this was written to help my kids and it looks like it is helping people out there, which is just wonderful.

00:29:10.265 --> 00:29:14.823
Well, it's very interesting because I've got great respect for Eckhart Tolle.

00:29:14.823 --> 00:29:21.509
But somebody gave me one of his books and I read the first chapter and I rang up my friend and said I can't read this, it's intolerable.

00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:22.813
I said what do you mean?

00:29:22.813 --> 00:29:32.114
I said, well, he's talking to us as if none of us have ever been conscious, ever, as if everything he's saying is brand new.

00:29:32.114 --> 00:29:35.298
Right, and I can't stand it.

00:29:36.886 --> 00:29:37.911
Okay, yeah, I know what you mean.

00:29:38.227 --> 00:29:41.625
It may have been my default mode network that was reacting, however.

00:29:41.625 --> 00:29:50.112
It may have been my default mode network that was reacting, however, but in your book, I felt like you were speaking to us as if we might be conscious already.

00:29:50.112 --> 00:29:57.217
And, as I was saying to you before, I was talking to the same friend and saying you remember what I said about the Toll book?

00:29:57.217 --> 00:29:58.638
Well, this book is different.

00:29:58.638 --> 00:30:11.404
He speaks to us as if he respects us and that we are conscious" and he said yeah, is he speaking to you as if he knows that you are also God?

00:30:11.404 --> 00:30:14.346
And I said, yes, he is.

00:30:14.346 --> 00:30:27.336
And so that's a compliment to you, really, in the style of your writing and the stance you're taking towards the reader in this particular book, and it means it's a beautiful experience reading it rather than an experience of feeling lectured to.

00:30:27.336 --> 00:30:28.196
That's right.

00:30:28.939 --> 00:30:30.319
This book is not about me.

00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:35.252
It's not about me that this book is about you.

00:30:35.252 --> 00:30:47.906
It's about helping you, and I give credit to our spiritual forebears and I quote them and I mention all the spiritual fates out there.

00:30:47.906 --> 00:30:54.900
The book is not about me, and why it is is I've discovered my own personal selfish happiness.

00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:58.650
I'm personally happy for when two things happen.

00:30:58.650 --> 00:31:06.651
One is when I'm fully present and that observing mind is on and I can look out and see the sky for the majesty that it has.

00:31:06.651 --> 00:31:10.006
And number two is when I have an intention to help someone.

00:31:10.006 --> 00:31:14.732
When those two factors are present, I'm happy.

00:31:14.732 --> 00:31:29.593
And when I'm selfish and I want to sell books or I want to be a figure or I want to succeed, that's actually when I'm not happy, and and that's the default mode so I'm.

00:31:29.593 --> 00:31:31.276
So those are the two things.

00:31:31.276 --> 00:31:38.507
Those are really my, my two goals for the rest of my life is to be fully present and to help others, and that's it may it be.

00:31:38.567 --> 00:31:40.250
so I'm sure it will be.

00:31:40.250 --> 00:31:42.414
Yeah, and I, and I'm the same as you.

00:31:42.414 --> 00:31:46.890
I'm happy in those two ways being present and wanting to help others.

00:31:46.890 --> 00:31:54.905
And of course love comes into that as well, because then there's self-love, there's universal love, there's love of humanity and there's connection.

00:31:54.905 --> 00:31:57.290
All of those things drop in, don't they?

00:31:57.290 --> 00:32:00.699
Within those particular stances.

00:32:00.699 --> 00:32:02.208
So I'm going to do something now.

00:32:02.208 --> 00:32:12.332
I'm going to just open the book randomly somewhere and read out half a paragraph, and then I'm going to ask you just to add anything you'd like to add.

00:32:12.332 --> 00:32:14.436
Okay, sounds great, and it's completely at random.

00:32:14.436 --> 00:32:16.503
We did not prepare this, everybody.

00:32:16.503 --> 00:32:19.209
First I've got to find my glasses.

00:32:19.209 --> 00:32:58.606
Music Whether you dance to a hit song, find nostalgia in an old tune or attend a concert, music cuts through the web of anxiety and takes you to the present moment, as long as you disengage from the wandering mind and actively listen the wandering mind and actively listen, that's on page 140.

00:32:58.626 --> 00:32:58.907
Yeah, beautiful.

00:32:58.907 --> 00:33:00.412
Would you like to say something about that?

00:33:00.412 --> 00:33:05.586
So that is the mental nod of anxiety and anger, and the default mode network has its hand in that again.

00:33:05.586 --> 00:33:07.855
It's wandering away from the present.

00:33:07.855 --> 00:33:09.500
Has you worried about the future?

00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:23.271
With good intention, but unfortunately that constantly revisiting the past can can manifest as anxiety, and I go through the all of the various anxiety disorders and anxiety can manifest in many different ways.

00:33:23.271 --> 00:33:31.912
But the remedy for anxiety and anger is presence, presence in the the now.

00:33:31.912 --> 00:33:33.614
And we're all very different.

00:33:34.414 --> 00:33:47.393
Some of us can meditate for 20 minutes, some of us cannot, some of us are more auditory and for those folks, you know, music is a form of meditation, as long as you're fully present and listening.

00:33:47.393 --> 00:34:01.586
Rather than wanting to hear a certain song, wanting the music to do something for you, rather be present and fully engage your senses and truly listen, and you'll notice your anxiety level will go down.

00:34:01.586 --> 00:34:10.648
For others it might be gardening, it might be reading, it might be prayer, whatever it is.

00:34:10.648 --> 00:34:16.565
What I would do is spend five minutes and again, this self-understanding, self-discovery is very critical.

00:34:16.565 --> 00:34:28.503
Spend five minutes, choose an activity First, observe your mind, for whatever state it's in it could be sad, happy, anxious, angry, whatever it is, just observe it.

00:34:29.786 --> 00:34:35.824
Spend five minutes, let's say, listening to music, and after five minutes look again.

00:34:35.824 --> 00:34:37.849
Did any changes take place?

00:34:37.849 --> 00:34:40.074
Do you feel a little bit better?

00:34:40.074 --> 00:34:49.346
That process of self-understanding, find those tools and techniques that ground you in the present and notice your anxiety level.

00:34:49.346 --> 00:34:57.793
Set that daily intention and you can overcome anxiety, either by yourself or with a therapist or a friend.

00:34:57.793 --> 00:35:14.284
But this book gives you all of the tools to help you and some of them may sound like common sense, but when you again, when you have that process of self-discovery, it can completely change your life beautiful and I.

00:35:14.666 --> 00:35:15.226
That is lovely.

00:35:15.226 --> 00:35:40.130
Actually, that music was what let out when I opened it just then, because music is one of my favorite things for just um, letting go, letting go of my fixed sense of who I am, reality or what's going on, and just kind of dropping into that multi-layered presence of receiving.

00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:42.134
Another one for me is looking at the sky.

00:35:42.134 --> 00:35:45.103
Where I live there's a lot of sky.

00:35:45.103 --> 00:36:05.811
There's something I've noticed sometimes which is if I am sort of stuck in my head and sort of going round and round in my head, if I then look out of the window, sometimes the sky will literally shock me into the present and I almost gasp.

00:36:05.811 --> 00:36:13.005
If it's particularly beautiful with a sunset or a beautiful sky, for whatever reason, it does, oh my God.

00:36:13.005 --> 00:36:26.567
And suddenly I'm back present and realizing what I was missing when I wasn't present, just that sort of shock moment.

00:36:27.329 --> 00:36:35.181
Yeah, that is, and you know that is a form of mindfulness, being being outdoors and what's actually happening.

00:36:35.181 --> 00:36:44.262
Um, this is in the the nod uh on stress, the chapter on stress, where it's it's called the relaxation response.

00:36:44.262 --> 00:36:57.309
But there is an actual chemical, a neurotransmitter is called gaba chemical, a neurotransmitter is called GABA and when it's released it counters the stress response, it actually reduces it.

00:36:57.309 --> 00:37:03.764
And being outdoors, being in nature, having gratitude, activates that GABA.

00:37:03.764 --> 00:37:08.320
Gaba is what you need to sleep at night and it can prevent stress from happening.

00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:21.385
So, regularly being outdoors, doing some deep breathing music, all of that activates GABA and it can do wonders for your life improve your sleep, reduce stress, prevent stress from happening.

00:37:21.385 --> 00:37:33.601
So part of this is actively cultivating that GABA several times a day, finding those techniques that work best for you and preventing that stress response from taking hold.

00:37:33.601 --> 00:37:35.684
Basically, yeah, amazing.

00:37:36.485 --> 00:37:39.811
Yeah and um, it's a happier place to be, isn't it?

00:37:39.811 --> 00:37:42.282
That it's a more enjoyable place to be.

00:37:42.282 --> 00:37:59.213
I notice, even in the conversation we're having today, I'm noticing I keep grinning because I'm really enjoying the subject but also this whole notion of just enjoying being in the present and allowing those knots to melt away.

00:37:59.213 --> 00:38:13.880
And I must say I really like this notion of you, in your 40s, suddenly realizing that you were miserable and making an intention to shift it and doing it in six months.

00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:27.284
To me that's a very uplifting thing to hear, because some people think, well, the only way to do it is if you were born into an ashram and you were meditating from the age of as soon as you sit up straight.

00:38:27.284 --> 00:38:33.382
And some people go through the whole of life and never really notice it.

00:38:34.264 --> 00:38:41.851
I think as well I really enjoy the way you're weaving the scientific with the spiritual and the philosophical as well, because I think that's really important.

00:38:41.851 --> 00:38:52.809
I think we've got too much at the moment of people saying, well, what's more important science or the mysteries you know?

00:38:52.809 --> 00:38:56.123
And that's right, it's both it's both.

00:38:56.784 --> 00:39:00.911
The science is now I would call science a source of spirituality.

00:39:00.911 --> 00:39:04.422
There is, um, we have a telescope, it's called a web telescope.

00:39:04.422 --> 00:39:09.449
It's looking out into the universe and what it's now discovering is mind-blowing.

00:39:09.449 --> 00:39:22.012
So it turns out there are we're estimating at least 100 intillion planets out there, so that number is too big for our brains to understand.

00:39:22.012 --> 00:39:30.485
So, essentially, if Earth was one grain of sand, just a single grain of sand, there are more planets in the universe than all the grains of sand on all the grain of sand.

00:39:30.485 --> 00:39:33.295
There are more planets in the universe than all the grains of sand on all the beaches of earth.

00:39:34.835 --> 00:39:38.318
That is how tiny and insignificant earth is.

00:39:38.318 --> 00:39:43.869
Now the default mode network may hear that and say well then, what's the point of this?

00:39:43.869 --> 00:39:45.239
It's so meaningless.

00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:54.146
But that central executive, that higher self, hears the same thing and says, wow, there is just this awe.

00:39:54.146 --> 00:40:00.170
How is it that we are conscious and aware of the universe?

00:40:00.170 --> 00:40:11.641
How is it that the universe started with just hydrogen and over time, created beings that are capable of looking at the universe and appreciating it, that are capable of looking at the universe and appreciating it?

00:40:11.702 --> 00:40:22.956
And so Buddha had the term emptiness and others call it non-duality, this recognition that there is no subject and object, there is no you and me.

00:40:22.956 --> 00:40:35.547
We're all interconnected and what's out in the universe is far bigger than our minds can really understand.

00:40:35.547 --> 00:40:42.085
So the key is to just silence that default mode and look out into the universe in awe and gratitude and appreciation and learn how to see.

00:40:42.085 --> 00:40:48.322
So Leonardo da Vinci said learn how to see and recognize that all of life is interconnected.

00:40:48.322 --> 00:40:54.820
And when we have that recognition, I think there's happiness there.

00:40:54.820 --> 00:41:01.353
There is just this gratitude that the fact that we are even here is a miracle.

00:41:02.539 --> 00:41:04.864
Beautiful, beautifully said.

00:41:04.864 --> 00:41:10.487
One of the things I like to ask my guests is to do with leaders in the world today.

00:41:10.487 --> 00:41:11.878
There's to do with leaders in the world today.

00:41:11.878 --> 00:41:21.592
There's a lot going on in the world today and everyone's got their own opinion about what is happening or what should be happening or what should be done and so on.

00:41:21.592 --> 00:41:46.463
And in amongst all that, there are a lot of people trying to be good leaders, trying to be part of the solution, including within that, people who are just trying to be good leaders in their own lives, and some of those people are listening to us right now and I wonder if you have something you'd like to say, particularly to people who are trying to be good leaders in their own lives and in their work and so forth.

00:41:47.393 --> 00:42:03.963
in regard to the default mode, network and equanimity, yeah, I would say that we, humanity, will be facing some major challenges coming up, particularly related to climate change.

00:42:03.963 --> 00:42:14.152
It's possible that climate change may start to accelerate and I think the world need to recognize that we are all interconnected.

00:42:14.152 --> 00:42:16.005
We are all interrelated.

00:42:16.005 --> 00:42:29.072
Unfortunately, a lot of our leaders currently are partisan and they just care about their party and being victorious against the other party.

00:42:29.072 --> 00:42:41.264
But that type of mentality, you know, has mired us and and we need to kind of transcend that a bit and recognize that we're all interconnected.

00:42:41.264 --> 00:42:45.452
You know, the israelis and the palestinians, we're all interconnected.

00:42:45.552 --> 00:42:52.711
I think we tend to demonize the other group and and think we are, we are the chosen group.

00:42:52.711 --> 00:43:02.681
But look where that mentality has has led, and now it's us against china, it's democrats against republicans, it's one group versus another group.

00:43:02.681 --> 00:43:26.826
And the leaders have to transcend all of that, that default mode network, that survival mechanism, and recognize that we have to work together, we have to collaborate, um, if we're gonna allow that next generation, you know, to have the same quality of life that that we had 80 000 years ago.

00:43:26.826 --> 00:43:30.751
Um, there was a major super volcano event.

00:43:30.751 --> 00:43:39.791
It was called the Toba Super Volcano in modern-day Indonesia and it was so massive that it led to essentially a 10-year winter.

00:43:39.791 --> 00:43:48.190
For 10 years the earth was covered in ash and cloud and for 10 years there was no food.

00:43:48.190 --> 00:43:55.733
Many animals died and it's estimated that humans we fell to a few hundred and nearly went extinct.

00:43:55.733 --> 00:44:16.630
And the way that I think our ancestors got through that period is just through unconditional compassion for our kids, Unconditional altruism, and that's why we're here today, because of that.

00:44:19.206 --> 00:44:20.610
And that's who we need to return to.

00:44:20.610 --> 00:44:26.668
We need to return to that altruism and compassion for the sake of the next generation.

00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:29.947
Wow, Thank you so much for sharing that.

00:44:29.947 --> 00:44:34.802
I was not aware of that.

00:44:34.802 --> 00:44:35.103
I had no idea.

00:44:35.103 --> 00:44:36.164
I do generally.

00:44:36.164 --> 00:44:47.429
In a way, I'm often astonished that humans have actually survived as long as we have because there's so much about us.

00:44:47.429 --> 00:44:48.391
That is ridiculous.

00:44:48.391 --> 00:44:52.972
But on the other hand, we are here and there's so much about us, that's magnificent.

00:44:52.972 --> 00:44:56.907
But thank you so much for that story Only a few hundred of us.

00:44:58.472 --> 00:45:04.047
That's right, it was nearly an extinction event, but we got through that period.

00:45:04.547 --> 00:45:17.581
Yeah, through altruism and compassion for each other, you um by banding together and supporting one another that's right and doing what, what needed to be done for for the next generation.

00:45:17.681 --> 00:45:20.670
Obviously, human babies are completely helpless.

00:45:20.670 --> 00:45:30.552
They completely rely on, on, their parents and and so that is this who we are, who we are in our core we are compassionate.

00:45:30.552 --> 00:45:37.829
But the default mode network sort of takes us away from that and has us focused on me and I.

00:45:37.829 --> 00:45:44.809
But I think at some point in our lives we will recognize that compassion.

00:45:44.809 --> 00:45:49.762
Within that it's everlasting, shining like the sun.

00:45:49.762 --> 00:46:02.211
It's there, and when we sort of return to that, that's when we can really recognize that it's everlasting shining, you know, like the sun it's there, and when we sort of return to that, that's when we can really be our best, I think, as a species, and I think we all have the possibility of the capacity for that.

00:46:04.583 --> 00:46:11.056
I think even the most troubled of us have that possibility, perhaps, of doing that.

00:46:11.056 --> 00:46:13.882
So I think that's beautiful, beautifully said.

00:46:13.882 --> 00:46:23.148
So I was saying, um, where would you like people to go if they would like to find you and find out more about you and about the book?

00:46:23.990 --> 00:46:24.793
absolutely so.

00:46:24.793 --> 00:46:27.262
The website is your default modecom.

00:46:27.262 --> 00:46:28.784
Single word and um.

00:46:28.784 --> 00:46:38.371
The book is on Amazon, there is a version in the UK store and, for whatever reason, folks in the UK are buying this book.

00:46:38.371 --> 00:46:45.974
It is the number one country in terms of sales and it's just wonderful and I hope I'm helping folks there.

00:46:45.974 --> 00:46:49.867
You can find my social media links on the bottom of the website.

00:46:49.867 --> 00:46:55.231
I am on Instagram and if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out.

00:46:55.231 --> 00:46:58.148
The email is yourdefaultmode at gmailcom.

00:46:58.630 --> 00:47:03.952
Fantastic and Hussein, has there been a favorite part of our conversation today for you?

00:47:06.061 --> 00:47:09.891
I really like the question about our political leaders.

00:47:09.891 --> 00:47:43.141
I think we need to ask the tough questions to more people, because we have the media and we have social media and it tends to amplify the negative stories and the extremists, and so I think we need a counterbalancing force and I think folks like you and many others like you out there I think very important to help us get out of our own default mode.

00:47:43.141 --> 00:47:46.007
Basically, Excellent.

00:47:46.186 --> 00:47:47.489
There's a mission for us all.

00:47:47.489 --> 00:47:56.731
Thank you so much, and is there anything else you'd like to say in closing, something that you'd like to leave listeners with to reflect on?

00:47:57.760 --> 00:47:59.965
Yeah, maybe I'll end with the final knot.

00:47:59.965 --> 00:48:10.469
The final knot in the book is resistance to change, and for many of us, let's say we get through and resolve all of the mental knots.

00:48:10.469 --> 00:48:14.878
We us let's say we get through and resolve all of the mental knots.

00:48:14.878 --> 00:48:22.981
We find a better place, we overcome our addictive craving and resolve our anxiety.

00:48:23.001 --> 00:48:23.842
Still, life is impermanent.

00:48:23.842 --> 00:48:32.092
It's always changing and we may one day, god forbid, have an unfortunate accident or something that takes us back to those knots.

00:48:32.092 --> 00:48:37.668
And so resistance to change is a hallmark of this default mode.

00:48:37.668 --> 00:48:45.047
It wants the present moment to stay the same, it wants things to stay the same, but life is impermanent.

00:48:45.047 --> 00:48:54.724
So I think developing your resilience is very important so that you can stay on that path to the enlightened state and being resilient.

00:48:54.724 --> 00:49:01.547
There are many ways to develop your resilience spirituality, regularly practicing mindfulness, even exercise.

00:49:01.547 --> 00:49:15.827
But develop that resilience every day so you have it in case of a difficult time, you have it ready, and that difficult time can be a source of spirituality rather than taking you back to those knots.

00:49:15.827 --> 00:49:18.802
So resilience is another term, like equanimity.

00:49:18.802 --> 00:49:20.507
I think it's very, very important.

00:49:20.949 --> 00:49:21.391
Wonderful.

00:49:21.391 --> 00:49:22.393
Thank you very much.

00:49:22.393 --> 00:49:24.541

Ep 162: Hosein Kouros-Mehr ~ Spirituality, Equanimity, Neuroscience & Transcending the Default Mode Network

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